Good evening, SF. I'm writing to ask for advice and guidance (as usual). The story builds like this:

About two years ago, my sister (in Florida) lent her daughter a car while she (the daughter) finished college. Right after college (in Michigan), Daughter took off to California with the car, hopping right into a post-graduation job, rather than giving it back as originally discussed.

As part of the ordeal, the car had to be titled and licensed in CA, and Sis took care of that. So... at this point, the car bears CA plates and title, in Sis' name, while Daughter has possession of the car (and the title).

For nearly two years now, Sis has been paying for the car Daughter is driving, and has now had enough of that. (As in, "Hey, you've got a degree now... get a proper job and start paying your own bills.") Things came to a head a few days ago when Sis and Daughter had quite a discussion about the situation. One thing led to another and Sis finally said, essentially, "You have an appointment at CA DMV on Monday. Get the car re-titled and entirely in your name, or I'll have it picked up."

Monday (yesterday) rolled around and Daughter didn't get the paperwork done. Sis blew a gasket, and rightly so IMO. Sis' challenge now is to make good on her threat, particularly following Daughter's bratty retort: "Fine, if you want it back badly enough, come get it."

Sis and I talked briefly this evening, trying to make a plan or two. Following is what we've got, and a few of the challenges. I'll ask for your help in ruling out options or coming up with a better plan.

Note: every option below is complicated by the fact that all the keys to the car are in Daughter's possession. I do not know whether she will be cooperative or not, and I'm inclined to be the pessimist in this case. (It's a Hyundai. Given the VIN, can a Hyundai dealer make a new key without having the car available?)

- - -

Option 1: One of us (Sis, her man "Mac," or good ol' vthoky) flies to CA, picks up the car, and drives it back.
Analysis:
* This will be less practical if I go, as I'd have to get the car to Florida and then get myself back to Virginia.
** Or, I could drive it to Virginia and Sis could pick it up later.
* It's a long stinkin' drive from CA to FL (or VA), in a car that now likely is packed full of German Shepherd scent... and hair.

Option 2: One of us flies to CA, picks up the car, and gets it to a transporter for shipping to FL.
Analysis:
* If Daughter is cooperative (with respect to handing over the title and keys), then this should be a breeze.
** If transport is the option, then is it even necessary for one of us to go to CA at all?
*** I believe that answer is "no," if Daughter is going to be cooperative about making the car and title available.
*** If Daughter is not going to be cooperative, then what's the right course of action? Can Sis report it stolen? It IS still her car, titled and registered to her. What ugly things happen after that?
* We need to find a reputable transport company. I know Mayflower does auto transports; what other companies can you recommend?

Option 3: Donate the car to Goodwill or another charity, and take the tax deduction.
Analysis:
* None of us has to go to California.
* If Daughter is cooperative, then this should go smoothly, right? There still will be the issue of getting the title back in Sis' possession so she can sign it over to the charity. That, too, relies on cooperation from Daughter. Can CA DMV issue Sis a duplicate/replacement title reasonably quickly?
* If Daughter is uncooperative (doesn't make herself available to hand over the keys and paperwork), then it's become a burden to whomever gets selected to go pick it up.
* If the car is GSD-polluted, would a charity still want it at all, even as a donation?

Option 4: Have the car towed and stored until a transport plan can be made.
Analysis:
* Storage fees are going to add up in a hurry.

Option 5: Can Sis have the car "booted" where it sits, until she can come up with a plan to retake possession?
Analysis:
* Will the local PD boot a car at someone else's (owner's) request?
* Doing so, of course, will require another PD visit when it comes time to un-boot the car.

Option 6: Contact the local CarMax, and ask about their WBYCEIYDBO (We buy your car, even if you don't buy ours) plan.
* Would Carmax send someone to Daughter's location to examine/pick up the car? (Because we know Daughter won't take it to CarMax herself.)

- - -

Those are the options we've thought of so far. What better options can the SF community offer? Thank you all.

Option 5 is out. PD won't get involved unless it's parked illegally on a public thoroughfare, which makes it a bigger problem for you.

Maybe I'm missing something, but is the beef about the daughter taking over the payments or just changing titled ownership of the car? Is it paid for?

Good question, bigwagon.
The bank loan on the car is paid. Sis borrowed from mom to pay that off, and is paying mom back. Sis has requested that Daughter pick up those payments, as Daughter is the one who's been driving the car for over two years now (without paying a dime). Daughter has refused, asking, "Why should I pay $300 a month for a car I don't even like?" *

So yes, the primary beef is that Daughter is taking ZERO responsibility, and Sis has finally had enough.

- - -

* = vthoky's rude comment: "What's not to like? It's been provided for you for over two years! Are you peeved that nobody's handing you a brand-new BMW or something?

I would hire a local repo firm to handle the repossession. A few hundred bucks and it will be done professionally and by those who know the law.

Once they have it fly out and pick it up.

Beyond Google reviews, what's a good way to find a reputable repo firm? Let's face it -- most towing companies are going to get negative reviews on the Innerwebz.

Should Sis contact an attorney in the area?

It all depends on how cooperative the daughter is. Daughter is losing her wheels so I wouldn't expect cartwheels, only issues if she's pissed. Mom is the proper person to handle this. She's the owner and it's her kid. (MHO)

If your sister doesn't want the car, she could fly to CA, sell it and fly back. If daughter will play along, she could do it by phone, email and fax.
If your sister wants the car, she should go get it and drive it back. If she doesn't want to drive she could fly in with someone else and then fly back.

The cops won't touch this with a ten foot pole unless sister reports it stolen, which it isn't at this point.
She gave her the car and facilitated her further use of it in CA.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
I would hire a local repo firm to handle the repossession. A few hundred bucks and it will be done professionally and by those who know the law.

Once they have it fly out and pick it up.

THIS- The car is legally your sisters. Once it's at the repo lot, just see what some local used car dealers or CarMax will give for it and you might be able to sell it and never have to go to CA.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
The cops won't touch this with a ten foot pole unless sister reports it stolen, which it isn't at this point.
She gave her the car and facilitated her further use of it in CA.

Good point. If Sis has issued Daughter a written request to either return it or re-title it (which I believe she has done), would some passage of time afterward with no action on Daughter's part be enough to constitute a "stolen" claim?

I don't relish playing like that, and I'm not sure I'd advocate it. But I still think the question is worth asking.

The Repo agency that employed me would not work for private parties as a hold harmless issue. That was 45 years ago and may no longer apply.

You and sis fly out to ca, get in the car and leave without giving the daughter the time of day.

Stop and get the car cleaned and serviced.

Spend a week or 2 with your sister sightseeing across the country posting pictures of all the fun you are having here.

She can drop you off in va and head south.

I like that plan, SpinZone.
We just have to figure out how to get a key made....

- - -

Having typed that, now I wonder if Sis could have the local Hyundai shop pick the car up (tow/flatbed), make a new key, and hold onto the car for her for a couple of days until she can either pick it up or have it picked up?

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
I like that plan, SpinZone.
We just have to figure out how to get a key made....

- - -

Having typed that, now I wonder if Sis could have the local Hyundai shop pick the car up (tow/flatbed), make a new key, and hold onto the car for her for a couple of days until she can either pick it up or have it picked up?

Back about 7 years ago we had a driver that had a stroke and later passed away. Long story short somehow he had the only key to his assigned truck. The dealer could not get us just a key but we would have to order all the locks but they did have the key code. Took that key code to a locksmith and they cut us a key. Now the truck didn’t have any of those RFID chips like these cars have today. Not sure how you would go about getting that since I believe you’ll need the car and key plus the dealer to program the new key. And then I’m not so sure that a car dealer will give you the key code without proof of ownership.

I don't know how long a new resident in CA has to register their car there, but it can't be more than a few weeks. I would not want to be on the hook for the fines that could rack up, if daughter wants to park the car somewhere and forget about it. If there's evidence it's been in the state for years, it could get real expensive, and daughter would probably not be touchable by it.

You better check and see what is required as proof of ownership to get a key cut.

Not speaking from Hyundai experience but GM experience here.

GM started cracking down on dealerships with a lax replacement key procedures years ago. At minimum a current registration and or title together with a picture ID and the name has to match on all documents. We had to keep copies of all these on file and were subject to audits by the state and the manufacturer. Each person that was authorized by the dealership to access the key codes had a access number and each time we used our number we had to electronically agree to follow the policies in place from GM and whatever governmental agency had jurisdiction over us. And one of the warnings that we agreed to was that when we used our code we were warned that we could be liable for criminal and civil penalties for misuse of this information.

There were at least two rings that were broken up in Michigan that had someone "on the inside" supplying keys and or codes to them. Those were the ones that were publicized anyway.

It was amazing how many people would walk in with a VIN number and expect us to cut a key without any proof of ownership. And the excuses....think I heard each one at least a hundred times. Most common ones were "My title is locked in the glove compartment" Or, "I lost all my ownership papers", and the famous "It's my (insert name of relative here)'s car and she (or he) said I could drive it".........

Don't miss that a bit!

How old is the car and what shape is it in? It might not survive a cross country trip and you don't want to get stranded. Might be best to sell it where it is.

You need a helicopter and a big magnet

Probably the first thing I’d do is get ahold of the CA DMV and ask what you have to do to replace lost title. If they have Sis as the registered owner with her address, it should be possible to fill out a form and have them send Sis a replacement title certificate.

I don’t know if title will be required to get the key cut (didn’t run down the above posted links), but if Sis or better yet you and Sis fly to CA with a title certificate showing she is the owner and a key, it should be simple to be on your way whether the daughter is helpful or not.

Reading the thread I had some thoughts about whether one might want to try to proceed in a manner that wouldn’t (further) damage the relationship between Sis and daughter, but I can’t begin to imagine daughter being so disrespectful to Sis. I’d never treat my Mom that way, and I can’t imagine either of our kids would treat my wife or me like that. Yikes!

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
At minimum a current registration and or title together with a picture ID and the name has to match on all documents.

Good point, and I'm sure Sis has all that paperwork together.

quote:

Originally posted by maxwayne:
How old is the car and what shape is it in? It might not survive a cross country trip and you don't want to get stranded. Might be best to sell it where it is.

I think the car is roughly 5 years old. Overall, I imagine it's plenty roadworthy, but it could probably use some TLC when Sis gets it back.