So the weather is getting nicer so the motor units will start to be out and about and I just had a random thought pop into my head.

With a car you have engine block/axels etc. to provide cover from incoming fire if need be. What the hell do the motor guys do if they take fire?????? Not a lot vehicle in a bike to hide behind/absorb fire.

I don’t know why I thought of this today but it was kind of a horrific thought, so what do the motor guys do, run for nearest cover??

Thanks all,
Chris

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
With a car you have engine block/axels etc. to provide cover from incoming fire if need be. What the hell do the motor guys do if they take fire??????

I'll let the motor guys answer that specific question, but note that the engine and axels aren't necessarily your best bet for cover during a gunfight around a car. Those are pretty low to the ground.

The vertical pillars in a modern car are hardened and ridiculously strong, designed to handle the stress of a car violently rolling upside down or having a larger vehicle land on top of them, without the passenger compartment being crushed. And yes, they will stop bullets, even rifle bullets. I've personally tested it on a number of vehicles, and seen it tested on more. They're the only part of the vehicle frame/body that is bulletproof. They're several inches wide apiece.

Cars will usually have 3 pillars on each side. And SUVs/vans commonly have 4. Here's a diagram pointing out the pillars on both types.



Depending on your positioning around the vehicle, you can stack multiple pillars front/back, side/side, or diagonally for added protection. Two pillars slightly offset next to each other equals the same width as the average hard body armor plate worn in a plate carrier. This gives you a large number of potential fighting positions behind partial hard cover around a vehicle, depending on the location of the bad guy, and allows you to fight the full 360* around a vehicle in a mostly upright gunfighting position while remaining mobile yet still maintaining as much hard cover as possible.

If you want a deep dive into using vehicle pillars as cover, check out the Vehicle CQB courses from Centrifuge Training. They're all about winning gunfights from in and around a vehicle. We teach an abbreviated version of it to the cadets at the academy where I'm a part-time instructor.


Back to motor cops and cover... Here's a related body camera clip that was recently released. It shows a motor cop getting into a gunfight during a traffic stop after a pursuit. He retreats from the cycle and takes cover by diving down the embankment, before returning and finishing the fight as the bad guy tries to steal the patrol rifle from his cycle. (Likely because he was out of ammo by that point.)

https://youtu.be/fT0p8RlvK8M

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,

If I recall correctly one of our motors told me they pull the bike down on it side. You prone out and use the small block for cover.

I knew about the pillars being tough as well but that was great info and that video is exactly all I could think they could really do. Jesus scary stuff.

I don’t know if I’d want to rely on a prone bike but again interesting.

Thanks guys and if there are any motor guys here. JESUS BE CAREFUL. I mean goes for all of you of course but somehow I just realized how extra dangerous those guys on bikes have it from both the traffic angle as well as the video above.

Take care, shoot safe
Chris

What he just went through gave me the shivers!!

I'm a current motorjock. Sure, there is training and tactics, and all that jazz. It is what it is. I ride solo, no partner, and we don't notify dispatch where we are and what we are doing. We have a GPS receiver attached to our bike. As I stress to the new recruits when I teach Transportation Code at the police academy - Learn how to talk to people. Hold a conversation. Don't be a dick because of the badge. When you stop someone for 25 over the limit, and you only write the ticket for 10 over, they're suddenly your best friend. It's a "Win-Win", or in the words of Michael Scott from The Office, it's a "Win-Win-Win". You constantly find ways to mitigate the risk and survive each day to go home to your loved ones.

quote:

Originally posted by wreckdiver:
What he just went through gave me the shivers!!

This article has the video plus many more details:

https://www.mercurynews.com/20...ease-new-details-in/

If that article is blocked, a shorter version is here:

https://www.police1.com/patrol...ut-oRHvt4bL0zoT5siV/

Jeez I hope noone ever uses my silver Sienna for gun fight cover Rogue.. . Another tid bit if info about those pillars, the coil stock they are blanked and formed from is tapered. Other words, thick on one edge thin on the other. They are much more impact resistant lower on the car body as protection is needed from side impact.

We were trained (late 80s/early 90s) to put the bike between us and the threat and NOT to be tight up right on the bike. I recall only having to do a felony stop once on it with no backup around after running down a kidnapper with the victim in the car. Got lucky and the car actually stopped where I could easily get away from my bike and issue commands from real cover (a big tree). Eventually everyone else showed up.

quote:

Originally posted by CWR67:
and NOT to be tight up right on the bike

Good general advice for any cover, except when you're dealing with an elevated threat and need to get tight to low cover in order to actually get sufficient vertical cover.

Goes a bit against human nature, though. A natural human reaction is to suck right up on the protection.

Any cover is good cover. We ride BMWs so the lower the better as most of it is plastic. I try to cant the bike in my favor and always be stopped before they are. My bike is usually off while coasting to a stop with gun side glove off. I use a passenger side approach as much as possible.
If I was stopping a robbery suspect like that I would have given them a lot more distance and unlocked my rifle mount.
It's easy to watch and say "I'd do this", sometimes it happens too fast like it did for him.