quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:

quote:

Originally posted by enidpd804:

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Originally posted by gpbst3:
Its common sense not to have a police office walking around without a gun in an unsecured environment.

wut?

Police should be armed at all time!

Gotcha.

The security guard is hardcore stupid and should definitely not have a job where he’s armed. Maybe shouldn’t have a gun, period.

All the discussion about whether the deputy was in the wrong or not wouldn’t even be happening had the security guard not drawn his weapon and prevented him from leaving, which is the far greater offense here.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
There is always one of you guys in a crowd.....

Actually, there's always one of YOU in a crowd.

The security dope was a fucking jackass that was lucky he didn't get shot or arrested by the real police.

Mall cop pulling gun on sheriff's deputy already walking away posing zero threat = Dumb

Sheriff's deputy suing and pulling the race card = Dumber

I would say if a uniformed LEO is "on call" and is expected and capable to respond, the officer is on duty. Lunch, bank deposit, IRS visit, whatever...

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Originally posted by pessimist:

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
There is always one of you guys in a crowd.....

Actually, there's always one of YOU in a crowd.

You’re right.

quote:

I would say if a uniformed LEO is "on call" and is expected and capable to respond, the officer is on duty. Lunch, bank deposit, IRS visit, whatever...

The difference is between "on duty" and "on official business". The federal property prohibited ALL persons from being armed if not there on official business.

The one officer asked why the security guard was armed then. Well....He was hired to be there in an armed position. Official business. The officer came in to ask a personal tax question. Not official business. All of the responding officers.....official business.


Personally I think everybody should be allowed to be armed inside of IRS offices. The one I have been to here in St. Louis is so scared of the public than you can't even see any employees when you walk in. Armed guard, waiting area, and booths with automatic doors. When your appointment is called, the little door opens and then you can speak to whomever is there.

What are they so afraid of?

Anytime someone wants to give more power to the gov't, they should watch this video.

[/QUOTE] What are they so afraid of?[/QUOTE]

Evidently off duty cops with weapons.

The IRS has a very hard job to do, especially now. But you might wonder about the IRS inventory of weapons. An official report says that at the end of 2017, the tax agency had 4,487 guns and 5,062,006 rounds of ammunition in its weapons inventory. So says this report published by the Government Accountability Office. +++LINK+++

The Veterans Administration cops are Federal employees. How come the IRS does not have Federal cops in their offices? Social security offices should have the same, not contracted services. Someone have the answer to that one?

Armed guard, waiting area, and booths with automatic doors. When your appointment is called, the little door opens and then you can speak to whomever is there.

What are they so afraid of?

I'm guessing you would say the same thing about a Social Security Office. Why should they be afraid of a bunch of old folks filing for benefits. Here's a small list of incidents at my office in the last few years before I retired:

1. Escaped prisoners entering my office asking for their disability benefits to be reinstated - happened twice. (Guess they thought we wouldn't check their status before reinstatement.)

2. Mentally ill psychopath who takes one look at one of my female employees, decides he is in love with her, and tells her he is going to meet her outside the office when she leaves. Guard escorts her to the car daily. We finally get a protection order, but he comes back again violating the order. We finally had to temporarily transfer her to another office until the psycho winds up raping another woman and getting a long prison sentence.

3. One of my employees does a great job handling a fraud case that's going to trial. The creep is out on bail. He is a white guy, but starts calling my employee attempting to disguise his voice trying to sound like a black guy. It was ridiculous. He threatens her with his "Black" voice. He winds up getting convicted for the fraud and the threats.

4. A guy comes in. While waiting to be called, he pulls down his pants and starts masturbating in full view of other visitors.

5. A woman threatens one of my employees. FPS officer finds out she is the wife of a major narcotics dealer that the DEA is investigating.

6. A man comes in, finds out he doesn't have enough proof to get a replacement SS card, then goes out to his car, gets a baseball bat, and starts swinging at our front door. Shatter proof glass of course, but we had to replace the door.

7. I personally have been threatened on many occasions. Never assaulted, but I know several employees who were shoved or hit before we went to barrier walls. A manager was shot in CA when a crazy claimant showed up at his house and shot him. Fortunately, he made a full recovery.

I could go on and on. These are only a few examples from just the last few years. There are many more over a 42 year career. So I think it's likely the IRS guys probably have similar stories to tell.

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
The Veterans Administration cops are Federal employees. How come the IRS does not have Federal cops in their offices? Social security offices should have the same, not contracted services. Someone have the answer to that one?

It's all about the money. Contract guards are cheaper.

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Originally posted by oddball:

As far as I'm concerned, any officer that punches in, puts on the uniform and sidearm, that person is performing official duties as a law officer. Whether he or she is responding to a disturbance call, a traffic stop, eating lunch at McDonalds, mailing a letter, or entering an IRS building.

It’s a pity you weren’t the security guard in this instance huh?

What is it exactly that makes you think this way? Is it the uniform, the gun, or being on the clock? Just wondering if your allowance for “official duties” extends to undercover officers, officers who don’t carry a sidearm as part of their regular job, or to those uniformed officers off the clock.

I’m a firm supporter of all LEOs but my support isn’t blanket agreement with everything they do.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
The Veterans Administration cops are Federal employees. How come the IRS does not have Federal cops in their offices? Social security offices should have the same, not contracted services. Someone have the answer to that one?

Cost.

The vast majority of "uniformed" law enforcement services for .Gov are actually private security contracts. They may have no, limited, or full law enforcement/arrest powers (on Fed property only) depending on the facility and the facility's federal jurisdiction designation. Multiple jurisdictions may exist within the facility or on fed property simultaneously.

Those security services vary in quality, training, pay rates, hiring practices, etc. from region to region, contract to contract and even facility to facility depending on the type of facility and the facility's requirements.

This mess took place in a single IRS office, located in a much larger non-federal, public access building. The guard was probably working alone, Monday thru Friday 9-5, weekends, evenings and holidays off. He was a body who met minimum requirements, on a contract with minimum requirements.

By contrast:

Had this been in an actual Federal Building with multiple Federal Agencies there likely would have been hard target physical barriers, monitored access control, public entry safety (ie.search) procedures, package/delivery scan procedures, vehicle access controls (including bomb detection)and there would have been 24-7 security, five, ten or more armed guards on duty (dayshift anyways) depending on the size of the facility and the agencies/offices in the facility, and most, if not all, would be off duty or retired LEOs or retired military.

The security guard was charged criminally, with 2 counts of aggravated menacing.

quote:

By contrast:

Had this been in an actual Federal Building with multiple Federal Agencies there likely would have been hard target physical barriers, monitored access control, public entry safety (ie.search) procedures, package/delivery scan procedures, vehicle access controls (including bomb detection)and there would have been 24-7 security, five, ten or more armed guards on duty (dayshift anyways) depending on the size of the facility and the agencies/offices in the facility, and most, if not all, would be off duty or retired LEOs or retired military.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for the reply. I am sure there are stats on assaults and incidents in Social Security offices and the IRS. I also recently heard that the local military bases are using contract personnel at the entrance gates as well.

Yep, when letter of the law and someone with a hard on to screw with someone crashes head long into simple common sense. Regardless what the actual law says, the guard has no business possessing a firearm given his incredible lack of brain function. There was 'zero' reason for that nitwit to ever break leather on that cop. And in my book, that's the biggest issue here. Glad he was canned over this. Hopefully he won't be able to get a similar job elsewhere.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by 357fuzz:
So let’s say the deputy goes there for a call for service. All good. While ending the call for service asks to use the restroom to take a leak as he is leaving. So, now he is off the call and authorized performance of his duty because now he is urinating. Would he have to un-ass his roscoe before doing so? This is where we seem to be going with this.

Don't be ridiculous.

Really? It’s all he’s got.

Sure looks like the cop broke the law. If a civilian did that, they’d be hammered, even if they did turn around and try to leave peaceably. Should the cop get off on professional courtesy? I dunno, maybe. Paul Blart clearly didn’t handle it well though.

A few month ago, I went to the local Social Security Administration office to get a replacement card. I parked a reasonable distance from the door, secured my pistol and spare mag in a lockbox, stashed the lockbox (cabled to the car) out of sight, locked the car, and headed over toward the door. There were a few doors and some signage that made it a little confusing, so I wasn’t sure which door I wanted. Before I could figure it out, while I was probably fifteen feet from the door, out popped a fellow who reminded me of a Marine DI I knew and he said, “You can’t come in here with any pocket knives.” I replied, “Okay, thanks for telling me. I’ll lock it up in the car. I need to get a replacement SS card. Is this the right door?” He said, “Yes, but you can’t come in with any knives.” I thanked him, went back to the car, tossed the two pocket knives in the center console, locked the car back up, then went in. When I went in, I thanked him again. He said he likes to make sure and tell people before they come through the door, because once they are through the door, he has to do a lot of paperwork, and nobody wants that. The implication was he’d have to arrest, though he was more circumspect in saying it.

If Paul Blart wanted to be equally gung-ho, he could have avoided a whole lot of drama by talking to the officer *before* he entered. Waiting for the officer to break the law (at least in his opinion, if not in fact), then confronting him clearly wasn’t the low stress way to go. Live and learn I guess.

It was also interesting that the responding officers didn’t seem to understand that it was against Federal law for a uniformed officer not on official business to be there. I’d probably put this down on the list of stupid laws, but still it’s still the law...