SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge IRS guard holds uniformed deputy at gunpoint. The stupidest thing I've seen in a while
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It could have been a member of a criminal gang dressed up as a cop to get entry into the building in order to rob the IRS. I know it can happen because I saw it in a Bruce Willis training film. Guys a frigging hero. “We truly live in a wondrous age of stupid.” - 83v45magna "I think it's important that people understand free speech doesn't mean free from consequences societally or politically or culturally." -Pranjit Kalita, founder and CIO of Birkoa Capital Management | |||
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He was on duty. Therefore legal. | |||
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Poor screening on the part of the company employing the IRS guard. The personality dynamics of this guy are pretty clear. This is exactly the kind of guy who should not be working as a security guard. The dynamics are pretty much the same as the kid in 6th grade who WANTS to be on the washroom monitor or the safety patrol guy on the bus who gets to report other kids who misbehave. Common sense, reasoning and some social skills are essential for the job. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
That's why the staff members of this forum were asked to take their positions by me or lbj. Anyone who asks to be a moderator is not, in my opinion, a good candidate. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Coin Sniper |
This Barney Fife clearly had no concept of the laws he was trying to enforce. I find it ironic that when faced with a dangerous uniformed deputy with a gun, they call 911, summoning uniformed offices with firearms. Back in the 70's it was common practice with our local Sheriff Dept to not allow Deputies to arm themselves until officially on duty. Meaning they were driving to and from in uniform, unarmed. A deputy in another county, following similar policy walked into a bank on his way to work to withdraw cash. He walked into a bank robbery, the robber saw the uniform and badge and shot the unarmed deputy. He never stood a chance. The policy changed immediately and if in uniformed deputies will be armed regardless of duty status. I'm not sure about Ohio, but I know for a fact that Michigan State Troopers, on or off duty, are required by state law to be armed at all times. Which puts the Troop in a catch 22 based on the opinion of this Barney F. I shudder to think of what would have happened to him if he'd drawn on a Troop but my guess would be disarmed, face down, and very unhappy. I'm sure the LEO here will tell you that as the "bat belt" has grown in size and equipment load over the years its become more and more difficult to know where to place your arms. Try walking around all day with your arms 6-8" from your hips. The belt and accessories are a good arm rest. That was practical, not threatening. I'm glad the jerk was fired. Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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| Happiness is Vectored Thrust  |
Let’s try this again. From Title 18, United States Code, Section 930, subsection d: “the lawful performance of Official duties by an officer...” Tell me, what was his official duty for being there? Responding to a call? No. Probable cause as he saw something suspicious? Um..nope. There representing his agency about an issue between the IRS and his department? Negatory. He was there because he had a question about a personal issue. Are you saying that as long as an officer is in uniform he is performing official duties? Really? So even if this guy is somewhere conducting personal business he is performing “official” duties? If that’s the case I doubt there are many places a uniformed officer can’t go. Leaving the house on the way to work - official duty. Stopping to get lunch during his shift - official duty. Running by a store after work to pick up some beer - official duty. Taking a shit in a public restroom - official duty. As long as he is in uniform then that uniform is a “go anywhere with impunity” pass? Again, I’m not defending the actions of the guard. He’s an idiot and shouldn’t be trusted with a position of responsibility much less a gun. But that doesn’t negate that the officer was probably in violation of the law/code. The idea that because an officer is in uniform gives him carte blanch to go anywhere he damn well pleases is ridiculous. Icarus flew too close to the sun, but at least he flew. | |||
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| Coin Sniper |
If an officer is on lunch, sitting there eating, and a guy comes in to rob the place, should be ignore it? What if there had been a real threat there, Security Fife would have surely expected the deputy to back him up. Where ever an officer, deputy, or trooper goes in uniform, it is expected they regardless of status, they will act in official capacity if required. Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids  |
Sorry. No. Our narcs do a lot of work with the feds. Our guys are not even allowed to go testify in federal court with a firearm. If responding to a call for service, yes. If on personal business while on duty, no. We've been through this several times with our city attorneys, DA's, etc. We had a similar situation here at the SS office. Our uniformed officer was asked to leave his gun outside or come back off duty unarmed. | |||
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| Happiness is Vectored Thrust |
Of course. IF required. There was nothing here that occurred either prior to or during the time the officer was there that required him to act in an official capacity. He was there as a private citizen conducting private business. Icarus flew too close to the sun, but at least he flew. | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Look, the point is that this officer was not inside that building conducting official business. He was there for personal business. The way the law is written, he technically should have disarmed before going inside. That's not really reasonable either though as pointed out by the hypothetical given by one of the responding officers about his gear then being vulnerable to theft. But the law is the law. In this case the officer decided to break it for the sake of convenience. The asshat guard then displayed to the world a complete lack of common sense or even a lick of any sense whatsoever. Idiot. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| I can't tell if I'm tired, or just lazy  |
I would suspect that the Sheriffs Department has something in their policy and procedure manual about conducting personal business while on duty. The way I see it, if an officer has some personal business to conduct, it has to be when there are no calls pending and, with the approval of the shift supervisor. If the shift supervisor approves it then the deputy would be on "quasi" official business, if it isn't approved, then the deputy could face disciplinary actions. This situation was an "iffy" proposition at best. _____________________________ "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin | |||
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safe & sound |
I'm not convinced that he knew it was the law, which precludes him from deciding to break it. Just like some of the comments, I do believe that some of these guys simply don't feel the law applies due to whatever justifications they came up with. And the guy was leaving once asked, so no harm no foul up to that point. I was 100% on the officer's side until I read that he's on paid medical leave due to the trauma he experienced as a result of this incident. I think he was absolutely in the right until that.
I don't believe in micromanaging people in this fashion. Sure, common sense should apply, but the guy shouldn't have to ask for permission every time he's doing something not 100% related to work. He mentioned serving subpoenas in the building. He may not be a regular deputy that runs calls. We have guys in our local Sheriff's department that only serve papers. | |||
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So let’s say the deputy goes there for a call for service. All good. While ending the call for service asks to use the restroom to take a leak as he is leaving. So, now he is off the call and authorized performance of his duty because now he is urinating. Would he have to un-ass his roscoe before doing so? This is where we seem to be going with this. | |||
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No one is allowed to testify in Fed court armed except the Marshals. Our SS office has no problem w/ armed LEO’s we can even go into the USA’s office or other fed offices armed. | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Don't be ridiculous. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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[/QUOTE] No one is allowed to testify in Fed court armed except the Marshals. Our SS office has no problem w/ armed LEO’s we can even go into the USA’s office or other fed offices armed.[/QUOTE] That's the way it was when I was manager of a SS office. A little common sense goes a long way. And like I said, why would you want to piss of your local law enforcement when you may be depending on them at any time. Local cops are expected to use some common sense and good judgement. I sure don't want cops lighting me up for doing 72 if the speed limit is 70. Yeah I know carrying a weapon is not the same, but in a sense it is the same. The idea is whether or not the person is a threat to public safety. I pose no threat to public safety doing 72 in a 70 MPH zone. An armed LEO poses no threat to my office. | |||
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The difference here is the IRS office is not a secure facility like a Fed court house. No one in the court house is allowed a weapon and everyone entering the building has to go through a security screening checkpoint. I believe in this case if the security guard did not visibly see you with a gun he would have no idea. Its common sense not to have a police office walking around without a gun in an unsecured environment. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
As far as I'm concerned, any officer that punches in, puts on the uniform and sidearm, that person is performing official duties as a law officer. Whether he or she is responding to a disturbance call, a traffic stop, eating lunch at McDonalds, mailing a letter, or entering an IRS building. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids |
wut? | |||
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A police officer should have a gun in their holster. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge IRS guard holds uniformed deputy at gunpoint. The stupidest thing I've seen in a while
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