I need to start putting some discipline into backing up data on my computer.

I'm planning to start with 2 USB SSDs. But if I want to retain the data for a long time (ie - pictures forever), I'm hearing that data on SSDs don't last forever.

Something about needing to provide active power at least occasionally or they lose the data, SSD's have a read/write lifetime max, etc.

How do use USB SSDs to backup data you don't want to lose?

You need a cloud based backup solution. There are many, Microsoft, Google, Dropbox, Internxt, idrive, acronis, etc.

I use Google Drive and Internxt. I use AxCrypt to encrypt any sensitive files (tax returns, financial papers, gun records, etc.) then let them backup to the cloud. I'm not worried about the privacy of my pictures as there nothing there concerning.

I'll let them worry about redundancy, security, and backup intervals.

On my primary machine, a Dell Desktop, I have a Samsung 500gb SSD boot drive loaded with Windows and all my application software. All data files are stored on a 2TB WD Blue spinning HDD. Then once a week Acronis backs up each drive individually to a third 6TB WD Blue spinning HDD. That arrangement allows me to recover quickly should my boot SSD bite the dust, and my data is stored on two separate drives. Should there be a copy of that 6TB drive offsite? Yes, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

My data is backed up to two USB spinning hard drives, a two-drive Raid 1 NAS and a four-disk Raid 6 NAS. Finally, a separate USB hard drive that gets updated monthly and stored in the safe.

I am a fan of the home based Network Access Storage (NAS) Solution.

https://shop.westerndigital.co...e#WDBVXC0020HWT-NESN

I bought the 4TB drive for my wife and she has linked both her computer and he phone. It will update automatically and can be accessed from anywhere.

 
I use the 3.5" platter drives for my off-site and long term storage of backups. HGST Ultrastar is my preferred brand (now owned by WD,). Since 2018, HGST are fully integrated with WD and carry the WD brand name. That tells you how old my backup drives are, and still running like champs. I keep them in anti-static containers. They take a little longer to backup, because their transfer speeds are in the 130+ MB/s range, but I don't sit and watch them, just go off and do other things until they're done. I do run an auxiliary fan on the drive during a long backup, because the 3.5" drives can get quite hot during long sessions. Using 3.5" drives for this poses no size problem, because they live in those anti-static boxes, not in your computer. I use a Plugable dock to put them in action. The dock takes 3.5" and 2.5" SATA drives.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
You need a cloud based backup solution.

This is only a partial answer.
Backup should be done at multiple times, to multiple sources with multiple media.
Translation not just "online".

RE "pictures, forever"

couple of thoughts, first one philosophical musings on 'forever', , and the second very tactical on SSD usage in this endeavor.

*********** re: 'forever'
When you look at the truly long view, the risks include:

Device related:
- the failure of the media holding the bits and bytes (the flash storage chips on the SSD, the disks and heads within the HDD, the individual DVD-ROM, tapes, floppies, punchcard, ,...)

- the failure of the electronics of the device with those bits and bites - the data could be there but if the electronics fail, you would not be able to access it and/or deliver it on request

Sands-of-time related:
- potential inability to connect the storage device to the target future data consuming device. You may think that USB 3.0 is forever....but that's what the SCSI folks thought 30 years ago, too.

- software file formats. Over the long haul, it is possible that backward compatibility may evolve to the point that super-old legacy data file formats quit getting supported.

- in a separate, removable storage approach (DVD/BD ROMs, floppies, tapes, Syquest media, ZIP drives, e.g.), the risk of not being able to find a working device that reads the discs.

***************** re: SSDs
Background: --------------------
SSDs, like every mechanical or electronic device ever made, fail. Compared to HDDs, they fail less quickly (no moving parts) but fail they do. And, often, with zero notice. My experience has been that I have generally not been surprised when my hard drives are close to failing, but I have never gotten any advance notice whatsoever when my SSDs have died.

Also, I do not know whether data recovery companies have as many tricks with SSDs as they have with traditional HDDs. Back in the day, even if all the electronics fried, one could often (if the failure(s) hadn't screwed up the internals of the drives) pay a small fortune to have the discs 'developed' and all the ones and zeros recovered. Ridiculously expensive (back in the day) but at least the option was (usually) there. I don't know whether or not anyone could recover data on the flash chips within a failed SSD.
end of background-----------------

SSDs are wonderful, fast things but I would not make my 'forever' storage two SSDs of identical age and design. If you are focusing on SSDs, then what I'd do is start with two of the most reliable brands you can find, and then after 12 months retire one and use a brand new one instead. Then, every year, similarly retire the oldest and replace with a new vintage.

Expensive, but if you truly meant 'forever' you'll need to be both paranoid and meticulous.

I don't know if it's the best back up system but I'll share mine:

I have 3 portable USB drives, a cloud repository (not a back up) and Acronis Cloud back up. In addition for pictures, I have Amazon Prime pictures which is part of prime and saves at original resolution. I also have Google pictures which is free and unlimited but at reduced resolution.

The things I back up: System back up, regular document files, and sensitive financial files.

The three USB drives have encrypted hidden drives. One of the drives, I back up every month. Of the two, I alternate every month. The two serves as a back up should the first go tits up. One of the three is set aside in case something goes wrong to the other two drives during back up.

Every month, I back up to the Acronis cloud, encrypted.

The cloud storage is really a repository of files I thought to save and contains more than what is currently on my computer drive. But it also contains an encrypted volume that reflects my critical files. I mirror those each time I change any of the critical files which include my Quicken files. During the monthly back ups, I mirror select folders.

Every month, back ups to two USB drives and the cloud takes maybe 3 hours depending on how much things have changed. I just queue up the back ups manually and just leave the puter running.

So there is a 3, 2, 1 rule. 3 copies of your data on at least 2 different technologies with 1 being offsite.

I would use a home NAS using HDDs in RAID 1, and then a cloud service. That covers the 3, 2, 1.

Get a NAS like a Synology DS1019+, or a DS218+ if you need to save money. Load it up with Seagate ironwolf drives. Use it as a backup. Get a friend to do the same, and replicate to each other’s device.

You need RAID 5, 1, or preferably 6. Even a hybrid Raid like SHR is good. You also need a modern file system like btrfs that supports data scrubbing and correction. Finally, whatever scheme you choose, test your backup offline. Don’t wait until you need it to discover that it isn’t working.

One word of caution. Watch out for WD Red drives below 8TB. They changed to SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording) over CMR (Conventional ...). SMR drives are dogs when rebuilding an array. Total dick move by WD. This is why I now recommend either WD Red over 8TB, WD Red Pro or Seagate Ironwolf/Ironwolf Pro (any size).

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
You need a cloud based backup solution.

This is only a partial answer.
Backup should be done at multiple times, to multiple sources with multiple media.
Translation not just "online".

Agreed. Without getting into RAID, etc. a simple solution that works for me is regular automatic (!!) backup to encrypted local external hard drive. The one time I had a PC fail this was my source for restore and it works super.

Layer on that I use Carbonite, also automatic and daily that also has a backup of all files I care about. This is my catastrophic insurance in case local PC fails, I find my external drive is not current as well, or in case of fire/tornado/flood/theft. Downloading my 400G backup from Carbonite would take forever, but better than nothing if needed. Only $80/year with the added benefit of being able to access any files that are on my PC remotely via the backup copies from phone, other computer, etc.

RAID is not backup or a backup strategy.

I use a Synology Nas device, that I in turn back up to a single sata drive. I don't have any "big" disks in my PC or devices. I store anything of importance or that I want to save (photos) on this nas device. Yes, if my house blows up I will lose it all, but I'll have a lot more issues to worry about if that ever happens.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
You need a cloud based backup solution.

Q: When your data is in the cloud, who has access to it?

A: Other people, no matter how many assurances the cloud service gives you. Not only other people, but the government, too, will have access under the right circumtances.

Never, and I mean never will I put my stuff in a cloud. No way. Local backups only. Put your data on three separate USB drives. I use one SSD and two magnetic drives for backup. All drives should be encrypted. Keep one drive with you whenever possible and keep one drive outside of your dwelling, in case of fire; safe deposit box, your vehicle, a relative's house, whatever. Add new data to it whenever practical. As long as the drives are encrypted and you use a strong password that you don't have recorded anywhere, your data is safe, even if you lose a drive.
With three drives, drive failure is not a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
You need a cloud based backup solution.

This is only a partial answer.
Backup should be done at multiple times, to multiple sources with multiple media.
Translation not just "online".

As I said, I backup to two cloud based services and encrypt sensitive files before they leave my computer for the cloud. I have a copy of everything on my computer, a copy on Google Drive, and a copy on Internxt Drive. Three copies, two offsite, seems like sufficient backup to me.

Are you saying this isn't a good plan?

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
RAID is not backup or a backup strategy.

Correct. It is a failure mitigation strategy.

I rolled my own backup solution. I have a pair of spinning media USB drives. My own-rolled backup solution does a full backup when I change the backup media every month, then automatically does nightly differential backups to the same media.

Each month I swap-in the other drive, and the one I swap-out goes in the safe.

I used the same tools at work, before I retired. And different roll-your-own tools for years and years before that. Main difference was the backups at work weren't on "rolling" backup media. They were permanent--which means they were both backups and informal archives. (Though they were destroyed after seven years. We had other off-line storage that was explicitly labelled as "archives" for stuff we explicitly wanted to keep "forever.")

The only files that were ever lost were files where the users couldn't tell me exactly where they had been or when they'd last been there.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Q: When your data is in the cloud, who has access to it?

A: Other people, ...

Correct.

Another way to think of it is this: "Cloud services" is simply a fancy way of saying "other peoples' computers," because that's what they are and what it is.

There is a school of thought in the IT industry that goes something like this: If you do not have absolute control over the hardware, you have no control, and thus no security, at all.

That being said: I trust the cloud services I'm using for my mobile devices, but, admittedly, in part because I have no other reasonable, effective alternative. For my home systems I do have a reasonable, workable alternative, so I use it.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
As I said, I backup to two cloud based services and encrypt sensitive files before they leave my computer for the cloud.

Encryption is only as good as the amount of brute force somebody's willing to expend to break it. As technology advances, the amount of such brute force that can be brought to bear becomes substantially easier, and cheaper, to acquire.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
You need a cloud based backup solution.

Q: When your data is in the cloud, who has access to it?

A: Other people, no matter how many assurances the cloud service gives you. Not only other peopl, but the government, too, will have access under the right circumtances.

Never, and I mean never will I put my stuff in a cloud. No way. Local backups only. Put your data on three separate USB drives. I use one SSD and two magnetic drives for backup. All drives should be encrypted. Keep one drive with you whenever possible and keep one drive outside of your dwelling, in case of fire; safe deposit box, your vehicle, a relative's house, whatever. Add new data to it whenever practical. As long as the drives are encrypted and you use a strong password that you don't have recorded anywhere, your data is safe, even if you lose a drive.
With three drives, drive failure is not a factor.

I hear ya but it's encrypted and both the cloud services are secured with 2FA so I'm confident things are secure. At least secure enough for my needs.

If anyone wants to take my before and after fat pics they can have them.

Say it together, friends: "3-2-1 plus 1"

3 copies, 2 separate containers, 1 stored off site. Minimally. The "plus 1" refers to another copy on an "air gapped" drive.

In practice, that means 1 live copy on your computer and two backups, one of which is stored off site.

The off site storage can be cloud based or some manner of remotely accessed network drive, but a key component should be that backups are run regularly and consistently. Continually and immediately, if at all possible.

The local backup can either be a USB drive, a Network Attached Storage device, or even a spare internal drive. If using a spare internal drive, RAID is NOT a backup scheme. Errors in data get copied across RAID drives in real time, so you can't count on the second drive to be there for you when you need it.

The "Plus 1" is a 4th copy of your data that exists as an "air-gapped" backup to protect against ransomware attacks. An air-gapped backup can be a USB hard drive that is not connected to your computer or network while at rest. You run the backup, and then unplug it.

All of the above can be accomplished using platter HDD rather than SSD. These are backups, not working copies, so you don't need super fast speeds. The extra money can be used to buy higher capacity drives that allow you to keep additional versions of your data.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:

I hear ya but it's encrypted and both the cloud services are secured with 2FA so I'm confident things are secure. At least secure enough for my needs.

If anyone wants to take my before and after fat pics they can have them.

Last week (or earlier this week) Canon's photo hosting service was attacked by ransomware. Users irrecoverably lost photo data.

If a Google or AWS server gets attacked by ransomware, be prepared to lose data. Best case scenario, there's a backup version buried far enough back that they can restore to, but there's a strong chance that the malware has been dormantly sitting on the system for weeks or months, and they'll nuke and pave everything going back as far as they need.

Cloud based backup has its place. But I would never rely on it.

Also, recall someone's son here lost access to his Google account because of a biffed Two-Factor Authentication issue. All of that encryption and security can work against you if you lose the device with 2FA or an angry spouse/hacker/child locks you out.