quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Toyota/Lexus is also the only car company I'm aware of whose remote start turns the car off when you open the door, and it's been that way for years.

That's less than ideal when it is 100 degrees and you have two little kids to put in car seats and a stroller to put away.

True. And in my new Highlander it annoys the crap out of me.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
Is your Taco 4 wheel drive?? I’d say your not familiar with the limits of your Taco. I’ve built 3 4runners in the past including suspension lifts, re-gearing, F&R ARB lockers, you name it. They went anywhere I dared and got me home. I needed the front locker about 5% of the time. Manufacturers can’t put *everything* consumers want on their vehicles, they’d simply cost too much. I’ll stick to the Japanese made 4Runner and Land Cruiser long before I’d save money on a GM or Ford product.

I actually used the front locker of my Rubicon way more than 5% of the time. I usually locked both up before hitting a gnarly obstacle, unless there's a sharp turn immediately after it.

My Tacoma does have rear locker and A-TRAC, which does help quite a bit on the front without severely limiting the turning radius. But of course I still prefer a front locker (and the beefier front axle that comes with it).

So, people want touch screens that you have to take your eyes off the road to operate at the same time everyone is screaming about texting and driving?

Here's what I want; tactile buttons and controls that I can operate without taking my eyes off the road. Make them programmable to do different things or all the same thing, as the operator wants. Make the radio unit do one thing, play the various types of radio and media, and nothing else.

Lexus designs, interiors and infotainments systems are remarkably and sadly many generations behind the times. It's a shame because I always loved their cars and owned an RX and a GS in teh early 2000's that I loved. Now, the styling is ugly, the interior are dark and the electrons are very outdated. They're not even very reliable any more.

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
So, people want touch screens that you have to take your eyes off the road to operate at the same time everyone is screaming about texting and driving?

That's why we have controls on the steering wheel, for all the stuff one would need while in the process of driving. For other times, the touchscreen is much more desirable and convenient.

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
So, people want touch screens that you have to take your eyes off the road to operate at the same time everyone is screaming about texting and driving?

Here's what I want; tactile buttons and controls that I can operate without taking my eyes off the road. Make them programmable to do different things or all the same thing, as the operator wants. Make the radio unit do one thing, play the various types of radio and media, and nothing else.

I agree. Driving is hazardous enough without checking the outside temp or whatever else it displays.
Wonder when some manufacturer is going to get the brilliant idea of building a vehicle with just oil pressure gauge, engine temp gauge, fuel gauge, and speedometer and tach? There are those of us (some under 30) that like a vehicle without foo-foo to fail just out of warranty. I'd like one, but I'm 70...what do I know?

I don’t want any of that crap anyway. My phone is a tracfone and my music comes from an ancient iPod, or “gasp” the radio. I’m only 35.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldrider:

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
So, people want touch screens that you have to take your eyes off the road to operate at the same time everyone is screaming about texting and driving?

Here's what I want; tactile buttons and controls that I can operate without taking my eyes off the road. Make them programmable to do different things or all the same thing, as the operator wants. Make the radio unit do one thing, play the various types of radio and media, and nothing else.

I agree. Driving is hazardous enough without checking the outside temp or whatever else it displays.
Wonder when some manufacturer is going to get the brilliant idea of building a vehicle with just oil pressure gauge, engine temp gauge, fuel gauge, and speedometer and tach? There are those of us (some under 30) that like a vehicle without foo-foo to fail just out of warranty. I'd like one, but I'm 70...what do I know?

You're a dinosaur my friend (and so am I). Where we're headed with the next generation of infotainment systems is almost all voice control, just like the Alexa and Google Assistants many already have in their homes. Up side, you won't need to look down or at the center console to set or change anything. Downside, when it fails, nothing in the car will work and it will cost a truckload of money to repair, which you obviously won't be able to do yourself..

I hesitate to post this in this thread, but what the heck. I encouraged this gentleman to take his wife and have her drive one of these before they made a final purchase decision. I always think exploring all options is good before cracking open the checkbook.

2020 Kia Telluride SX Premium Edition



I actually had a rather long test drive in one of these a few weeks back, and IMO it trumps the RX 570 (and virtually every other vehicle in the class) on every level. Smoother more comfortable ride, quieter inside, packs more options, has an insanely large panoramic sunroof, gets better fuel economy, has a better/longer standard warranty, and on paper, has more interior storage space than the RX570. This is the best vehicle Kia has ever made, and it really shows when you drive it. An absolutely fully loaded Telluride goes for around $44k (before negotiation), which would likely have been ~$35k less expensive than the RX570 when all was said and done.

The answer he got back from his wife when he suggested she at least drive one of these..."I can't drive a Kia." And there you have it. Money doesn't always follow superior intellect. My bet, if he'd brought the car to her for a test drive with the badges covered, she'd have loved it...until she found out who made it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jus228:
I don’t want any of that crap anyway. My phone is a tracfone and my music comes from an ancient iPod, or “gasp” the radio. I’m only 35.

yep. a radio and a cd player and i'm good to go. anything else is just more crap to break later.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Another issue that makes no senses to me regarding Toyota and the TRD Pro models is the lack of a front locking differential and the tires they put on them are worthless off road. They don’t even come close to competing with the Rubicons, ZR2 (not to mention the Bison) or Gladiator and I imagine the new Bronco will be a better rig as well. If you are only hitting dirt roads OK but any serious off reading and the Toyota simply is not your best option which is surprising considering the 4Runner and Tacoma could be superb off road.

Granted, my 2007 Tacoma has been bullet proof but I certainly wouldn’t take it to Moab.

Is your Taco 4 wheel drive?? I’d say your not familiar with the limits of your Taco. I’ve built 3 4runners in the past including suspension lifts, re-gearing, F&R ARB lockers, you name it. They went anywhere I dared and got me home. I needed the front locker about 5% of the time. Manufacturers can’t put *everything* consumers want on their vehicles, they’d simply cost too much. I’ll stick to the Japanese made 4Runner and Land Cruiser long before I’d save money on a GM or Ford product.

Yes. I’m talking stock. When you go to Moab (about 2 hours from my home), the Rubicons clearly are a class a head of the Toyotas - at least when the slick rock is slick from rain. I agree that everything can’t be put on a vehicle but when you start looking at what is on a Rubicon, Gladiator, ZR2 and ZR2 Bison you really start to wonder why the TRD Pro isn’t comparable. Which gets back to the intent of the original post, the electronics package is really antiquated for a luxury vehicle.

BUT, how well did your front locker work? I’m really curious as I’m thinking of a new Taco (see I’m somewhat of a hypocrite) and I’m thinking of the TRD Pro.

Great Dinosaur Minds think alike.

At the beginning of the year, after some bad weather and the worst road conditions I'd seen around here in a long time, I wanted a smaller vehicle for my wife to drive to work with and use locally, so she would not have to use her Duramax.

We ended up with a super clean 2015 Jeep Patriot. No bells or whistles. I have taken to calling it "the baby jeep" since it is so small compared to both our full-sized trucks. Although it does have an input jack for playing music from my phone, I don't even use that on the occasions I drive it. I have found a couple of very decent local "terrestrial" radio stations. I hadn't listened to regular FM for years. Also for such a "low-end" basic vehicle the sound system is surprisingly good.

This is a solid vehicle that my wife likes because it is more "truck-like" than the other more refined SUV's we checked out. It gets the job done. She often says she likes her "compact buggy" or "Maserati" because it turns on a dime. And it handled the winter snow in excellent fashion.

This is the bare-bones interior. Power windows and AC is about the extent of it.





I like the looks of the Telluride BTW, although I'm not impressed with the ads because anyone can drive around in and tear up a wet field.

quote:

Originally posted by AH.74:
I like the looks of the Telluride BTW, although I'm not impressed with the ads because anyone can drive around in and tear up a wet field.

Personally I think their advertising/marketing program for the Telluride borders on stupid. Can it do a bit of mild off roading? Sure. But when you climb in this thing with its incredibly posh leather interior and every option known to man, you realize that not 1 in 100 of these will ever leave the pavement. If Kia's ads focused more on the vehcile's capabilities in the snow for those living in northern climates that would make far more sense to me. It's an incredibly nice, comfortable, vehicle, and a bargain for the money in today's insanely priced SUV market.

quote:

Originally posted by LBAR15:
Lexus designs, interiors and infotainments systems are remarkably and sadly many generations behind the times. It's a shame because I always loved their cars and owned an RX and a GS in teh early 2000's that I loved. Now, the styling is ugly, the interior are dark and the electrons are very outdated. They're not even very reliable any more.

This topic came up on a local finance/investing radio talk show the other day. I wish I had a link as they had a lot of good numbers and examples. But they said Japan has been hit with a pretty heavy recession and Toyota is being very conservative in the R&D department to save money which is why across the Toyota line you have seen almost zero major changes in any of their models a minor face lift here or there but no big strides away from their status quo, nothing really ground breaking, or a departure from what they have been doing for the last 10-15 years.
I mean look at Toyota’s ultimate iconic sports car return, nothing more than a tarted up BMW Z4 what a complete and utter failure.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Another issue that makes no senses to me regarding Toyota and the TRD Pro models is the lack of a front locking differential and the tires they put on them are worthless off road. They don’t even come close to competing with the Rubicons, ZR2 (not to mention the Bison) or Gladiator and I imagine the new Bronco will be a better rig as well. If you are only hitting dirt roads OK but any serious off reading and the Toyota simply is not your best option which is surprising considering the 4Runner and Tacoma could be superb off road.

Granted, my 2007 Tacoma has been bullet proof but I certainly wouldn’t take it to Moab.

Is your Taco 4 wheel drive?? I’d say your not familiar with the limits of your Taco. I’ve built 3 4runners in the past including suspension lifts, re-gearing, F&R ARB lockers, you name it. They went anywhere I dared and got me home. I needed the front locker about 5% of the time. Manufacturers can’t put *everything* consumers want on their vehicles, they’d simply cost too much. I’ll stick to the Japanese made 4Runner and Land Cruiser long before I’d save money on a GM or Ford product.

Yes. I’m talking stock. When you go to Moab (about 2 hours from my home), the Rubicons clearly are a class a head of the Toyotas - at least when the slick rock is slick from rain. I agree that everything can’t be put on a vehicle but when you start looking at what is on a Rubicon, Gladiator, ZR2 and ZR2 Bison you really start to wonder why the TRD Pro isn’t comparable. Which gets back to the intent of the original post, the electronics package is really antiquated for a luxury vehicle.

BUT, how well did your front locker work? I’m really curious as I’m thinking of a new Taco (see I’m somewhat of a hypocrite) and I’m thinking of the TRD Pro.

Well...you do know that your Taco will *long* outlast any Jeep or the like, right? I’d rather pay for quality and reliability and then modify to suit. Everywhere I’ve been, there may be a lot of Jeeps, but LandCruisers, 4Runners and Taco’s ruled the off road world. As for the front locker, it was more of an insurance policy...it was very rarely used if you drove skillfully. However there were the occasional times it made the difference. Ive never been the type to come up on an obstacle and just automatically lock everything, it’s more fun to rely on skill. The ones I used were ARB air lockers. It’s a tried and true design that’s been around for decades now.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by LBAR15:
Lexus designs, interiors and infotainments systems are remarkably and sadly many generations behind the times. It's a shame because I always loved their cars and owned an RX and a GS in teh early 2000's that I loved. Now, the styling is ugly, the interior are dark and the electrons are very outdated. They're not even very reliable any more.

This topic came up on a local finance/investing radio talk show the other day. I wish I had a link as they had a lot of good numbers and examples. But they said Japan has been hit with a pretty heavy recession and Toyota is being very conservative in the R&D department to save money which is why across the Toyota line you have seen almost zero major changes in any of their models a minor face lift here or there but no big strides away from their status quo, nothing really ground breaking, or a departure from what they have been doing for the last 10-15 years.
I mean look at Toyota’s ultimate iconic sports car return, nothing more than a tarted up BMW Z4 what a complete and utter failure.

But what I was drawing attention to is not an R&D related issue. Carplay and Android Audio have been going in everything for the past four or so years. All Toyota had to do was recognize this reality and have their vendors modify the infotainment systems they're buying for their cars to accommodate both interfaces. IMO Toyota pulled a SONY BetaMax on this one and they're paying for it.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by LBAR15:
Lexus designs, interiors and infotainments systems are remarkably and sadly many generations behind the times. It's a shame because I always loved their cars and owned an RX and a GS in teh early 2000's that I loved. Now, the styling is ugly, the interior are dark and the electrons are very outdated. They're not even very reliable any more.

This topic came up on a local finance/investing radio talk show the other day. I wish I had a link as they had a lot of good numbers and examples. But they said Japan has been hit with a pretty heavy recession and Toyota is being very conservative in the R&D department to save money which is why across the Toyota line you have seen almost zero major changes in any of their models a minor face lift here or there but no big strides away from their status quo, nothing really ground breaking, or a departure from what they have been doing for the last 10-15 years.
I mean look at Toyota’s ultimate iconic sports car return, nothing more than a tarted up BMW Z4 what a complete and utter failure.

But what I was drawing attention to is not an R&D related issue. Carplay and Android Audio have been going in everything for the past four or so years. All Toyota had to do was recognize this reality and have their vendors modify the infotainment systems they're buying for their cars to accommodate both interfaces. IMO Toyota pulled a SONY BetaMax on this one and they're paying for it.

But their infotainment systems really aren’t up to snuff anyway. It may not exactly be as simple as ohh just turn it on. You have to have hardware and software that are capable of supporting it. I am not fully up on Toyota’s full infotainment but all I have seen is extremely lacking.
Takes R&D money to make those upgrades regardless of being in house or an outside contractors doing the work. Cash still has to come from Toyota. Their sale aren’t exactly hurting with out it at the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
I’ve built 3 4runners in the past including suspension lifts, re-gearing, F&R ARB lockers, you name it.

So the answer to having a good Toyota is to take all of the Toyota parts off of it?

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
Well...you do know that your Taco will *long* outlast any Jeep or the like, right? I’d rather pay for quality and reliability and then modify to suit. Everywhere I’ve been, there may be a lot of Jeeps, but LandCruisers, 4Runners and Taco’s ruled the off road world. As for the front locker, it was more of an insurance policy...it was very rarely used if you drove skillfully. However there were the occasional times it made the difference. Ive never been the type to come up on an obstacle and just automatically lock everything, it’s more fun to rely on skill. The ones I used were ARB air lockers. It’s a tried and true design that’s been around for decades now.

My Rubicon's lockers often take some time and a little distance (sometime takes an S curve for teeth to sync) to lock. Especially in a group setting, I usually lock up before hitting it - tear up the obstacle a little less that way, leaving it more or less the same for the next guy in line, and saves time (who wants to wait around for everyone to struggle up a line), etc.

My Tacoma locker is same, takes some time to lock. I can usually size up an obstacle and kinda know whether I'd struggle up it with open diffs or not.. especially with a vehicle that I am very familiar with on the trails.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
I’ve built 3 4runners in the past including suspension lifts, re-gearing, F&R ARB lockers, you name it.

So the answer to having a good Toyota is to take all of the Toyota parts off of it?

That’s the dumbest miss alignment of words I’ve heard all day.