Gets changed every year. Used to track the car regularly. If you get water in your system, it won’t matter what type you run.

So far, so good.

One other thing to note is that fluids now come in standard viscosity and "low viscosity" formulations.

Some vehicles *must* use low viscosity fluids for their ABS and traction control systems to function properly and are spec'd with LV fluids. Some ABS/Traction systems have really really small passages so the fluids are spec'd to a lower viscosity to ensure that the fluid makes it into all of the little passages.

You *may* use LV fluids in place of standard viscosity fluids in most vehicles. Fluids are non-compressible, so absent some weird system that uses the viscosity of flowing brake fluids for timing, an LV fluid should function similarly to (if not better than) an SV fluid pressurizing any passage that can handle SV fluid.

Lastly, more expensive/more premium does *not* equate to better for *your application*. As with most engineering problems, brake fluid is a compromise between a bunch of factors. One of the compromises is between water absorption and boiling point. The top tier brake fluids are meant for racing applications--super high boiling points, but similarly high water absorption rates. If used in a daily driver, you'd have to change the fluids out much more frequently to ensure that the boiling point isn't compromised and that the water isn't rusting out the inside of your brakes.

Toyota specs DOT 3, even for their Lexus branded SUVs. It's within the performance envelope (nobody is tracking their LX), and all else equal, DOT 3 typically absorbs less water over time than DOT 4. Can a high quality, DOT 4 give you better boiling resistance AND less water absorption? Yes, of course, but that's a function of manufacturer formulation (and price), not because of the DOT 4 specification.

Like others have mentioned, ATE, Pentosin, Motul is good stuff. I'm using Pentosin Dot 4 LV on my cars (BMW, Volvo, Land Rover, Lexus).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aeteocles,

I'm using Pentosin DOT 4 LV fluid in my bmws. I have a Motive bleeder kit which makes it easy.
The hardest part is scheduling time at my boss' house to use his lift.

While we are on this, how are you guys bleeding your ABS valves? I’m looking at diagnostic scanners trying to figure out which ones will activate the ABS on my F350 so I can bleed that. I’m also trying to figure out which one will allow me to do a static regen of my DPF.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
While we are on this, how are you guys bleeding your ABS valves? I’m looking at diagnostic scanners trying to figure out which ones will activate the ABS on my F350 so I can bleed that. I’m also trying to figure out which one will allow me to do a static regen of my DPF.

https://www.costco.com/thinkch...oduct.100826004.html

No experience with this one, but it's got 2 things going for it:

1) It's cheap. Especially on sale now. The price includes 4 modules/functions or whatever they call it, for life (e.g., DPF regen, ABS reset, Service Reset, etc). Most others require annual software updates that are a hundred bucks or more.

2) It's from Costco. If it doesn't work, take it back, no questions asked.

Resetting the DPF or ABS light isn’t the same thing as telling the vehicle to do a regen or activate the ABS modules. The one I bought this morning will do both for some vehicles, but not mine apparently, so back it goes tomorrow.

FCP Euro recommends the Autel brand, and the Care Care Nut (Toyota mechanic turned YouTuber) recommends the XTool brand.

Here's his review of the XTool D7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tUBSwsZjU8

It's on my want list, but I won't need it for many more months, so I'm holding off on it for now (maybe something better comes along).

Sounds like Pentosin or ATE are the way to go.
I’ll likely switch to extended SS brake lines while I am at it.

Tagged for future reference.

To toss another variable in, the BOSS supplemental for my manual suggests switching to Super DOT 4 for higher performance applications. I've got a 1L jug of Pentosin and a vacuum bleeder kit waiting for my back to calm down enough for me to climb down and bleed the brake system - the fluid in there is likely as old as the car.

What's the difference between that and 5.1? I can only find comparisons between regular 4 and 5.1.

Slight thread driftage - -
Anyone ever try one of these units?
Pushes the brake pedal with the click of a remote while you are at the wheel turning the bleeder.
Just saw it on a Motorhead Garage episode I had on the DVR. Velcro to the brake pedal, attach the other end to the steering wheel.

Fender lizard 1 person brake bleeder

From what I can tell, Super Dot 4 and Dot 4+ are just marketing terms, not an official certification/standard.

In the case of Pentosin Dot 4 vs Super Dot 4, you are trading away wet boiling point (and increasing change frequency) for increased dry boiling point.

It's possible to build your own bleeder. I have all the components, including a new brake cap to do it, yet other things get in the way. There are also plenty of them on the market altho most are garage level spec and pricing.

One issue as mentioned is getting the fluid in the ABS system purged. Some is better than none AFAIK. I'm not cracking any connections on that loop.

A very common problem is having too much fluid on hand - I've had bottles that were 20 years old with the remnants of two other bottles in it. It might be tightly sealed but deterioration over time is an issue, much the same as seeing those 45 year old cans of oil at the flea market. There's a reason they are always black, not clear like tea. Oil, rubber, and fuel has an expiration date calculated from the moment it leaves the refinery or factory - tires, too - and keeping them back as spares or long term supply isn't possible for most. It would literally require storage in a dry nitrogen chamber for tires. This is why local shops sometimes come up with special pricing on a batch of tires - they were wholesaled cheap as the expiration date was too close for a warehouse to accept liability.

Anyone who's tried to store gasoline for a generator knows what kind of hoops you have to jump thru to keep it serviceable and it's also why many convert to propane. Brake fluid is the same - the empty can is the collectable, not the fluid.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
FCP Euro recommends the Autel brand, and the Care Care Nut (Toyota mechanic turned YouTuber) recommends the XTool brand.

Here's his review of the XTool D7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tUBSwsZjU8

It's on my want list, but I won't need it for many more months, so I'm holding off on it for now (maybe something better comes along).

I’ve been looking at Autel, but there’s so many. Even with in one model, the 808, for instance, there’s the MP808, MK808, MX808, and DS808. You can tack on a TS or BT to the end of each of those as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
From what I can tell, Super Dot 4 and Dot 4+ are just marketing terms, not an official certification/standard.

In the case of Pentosin Dot 4 vs Super Dot 4, you are trading away wet boiling point (and increasing change frequency) for increased dry boiling point.

That about sums up what I suspected.

So far have only found Pentosin Super DOT 4 and 4 LV. Which if I am understanding right is not what I should be using for my application.

Pentosin Super DOT 4 should work fine in your application.

Here's a link to an FCP Euro Blog that details the differences and when the LV fluids are typically required. There's also a very good chart that compares the wet & dry boiling points of the various fluids.

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/brake-fluid-academy

Bosch ESI6-32N Brake Fluid is my preferred.

Has been in Volkswagens, Mazdas, Toyotas, GM and Honda.

Just for reference, you guys are making a big deal about a minor thing.

Back in 83, that's 1983 or 39 years ago, I took delivery on a then new Jeep. After sinking my 78 in mud and water more times than maybe I should have, I decided I'd had enough. Went down the road to my then favorite car parts place and bought a bunch of Dot 5 brake fluid. Drafted my then 12 YO son to work the brake pedal and went to work. Drained all the bleeders, using a few pieces of hose run down into some jars. Then began letting them drain out. With the master cylinder open, it took some time. But then poured in the Dot 5. When it gravity fed to the wheels, I had my brake worker gently press the pedal. Then starting at the far rear wheel, I used new jars so as to not suck the factory junk up the hose. Worked my way around the wheels. Kept filling the master cylinder as it got down. Took well over an hour! Well, that and a few pints of the like gold fluid. Then re-tightened the wheel cylinders and calipers.

So I drove the CJ7 all over hell and back, including the Moab Jeep Safari, Mile-Hi's All-4 Fun, Towed at Gravelrama, led numerous Club rides in the mountains, etc. Finally, in 1997 I sold it. Never bothered to touch the insides of the brakes again. Worked like a charm. The Jeep was great, and so was the brake system.

The real question is how long do you expect to keep and drive the vehicle. For me, it was a wise investment. I wanted one less thing to worry about. I got that. Cost was under $100. Time was an hour or two, including waiting at the car parts place.

My only mistake was not doing the same on the 2016 out in the garage. It doesn't go many places these days, having 19,000 give or take. I'm not too worried about it. My widow can sell it or give it to a grandson. He'll need to worry about the brakes.

Things I race I change the brake fluid all the time. I prefer ATE because its in the sweet spot of the characteristics I want, its priced well, and it comes in metal cans which makes me happier having it around. When I want to change the fluid in something that I don't want to touch again I use castrol SRF, its ungodly expensive but the wet point is unbelievable.
On a truck I think it literally matters not. And at least on my trucks the odds you are going to have to do something to the brake system every year that results in a brake bleed anyway are nearly 100%. Frozen calipers, brake line with issues, pad change, etc. etc.