Hadn't seen this topic on any other thread so posting it here. Looks like another financial institution is wadding into the social/political waters, and playing dirty. Gunsite could lawyer-up and I believe bring about a charge of financial wire-fraud.
There’s been yet another incident of ignorance merging with a desire to undermine our Second Amendment rights resulting in financial attack on a prominent industry company. This time it’s one I consider the equivalent of church for gun owners: Gunsite Academy in Paulden, Arizona. Gunsite, which was founded by the late Col. Jeff Cooper in 1976 under the name American Pistol Institute, has found itself on the receiving end of anti-2A rhetoric last week from none other than Intuit, Inc., owner of QuickBooks small business accounting and management software.
This morning I chatted with Ken Campbell, Chief Operating Officer at Gunsite Academy. We started were all involved stories should; at the beginning.
A couple of months ago Gunsite decided to make a change to a new credit card processor, QuickBooks. It seemed to be a wise business choice at the time and may have been, had Intuit not chosen to go the way they did.
About ten days ago the Gunsite bookkeeper found herself on the receiving end of a phone call from QuickBooks. The company felt there was “trouble” because they had realized Gunsite sold knives and guns on their website. This, the QuickBooks rep said, meant sales weren’t face-to-face and “kids could buy them.”
Gunsite took the time to patiently, politely educate the rep on how FFLs work and explain the laws and processes of firearm sales. Once the process and regulations were laid out, the rep backpedaled, saying now that they understood the procedure, it was alright after all and business could continue.
Then, a week ago – May 11th, 2018 – Gunsite got another phone call from QuickBooks. This time it didn’t go as well. The software company informed Gunsite that they were immediately ceasing all business with them. Why? Because they sell and promote firearms.
At first blush this was frustrating news, but Gunsite figured it could be handled. Then the other shoe dropped: in addition to cutting business ties with Gunsite, QuickBooks/Intuit refused to release the money from credit card charges currently in process from sales that had already made.
This amounts to tens of thousands of dollars from not only purchases made in the Gunsite Pro Shop – including hats, shirts, bumper stickers, and coffee mugs – but also money that had been paid for classes taken on gun safety and marksmanship.
Yes, you read that right. Tens of thousands of dollars in sales of products and classes, paid for in good faith, that Intuit has refused to release. Instead, Intuit stated they would refund those monies to the credit card holders. That means revenue for everything from pens to five-day level 250 pistol courses had just became door prizes, provided free to people who had the benefit of the training and took home products, all courtesy of the Intuit’s largesse.
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Posts: 15149 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000
Intuit QuickBooks has apparently had quite the busy month of May – and it isn’t over yet. We first heard about their poor treatment of Gunsite Academy, but it turns out they were simultaneously doling out similar treatment to Flint River Armory and Lone Wolf Distributors.
It’s a trend we’ve seen in the headlines since February: financial institutions playing politics by cutting off or restricting services to gun industry companies. However, unlike Bank of America which publicly stated they would no longer finance manufacturers who make “military-style weapons” for civilians, Intuit is trying to stay the shadows. (Of course, a few weeks after their announcement, BofA let it be known they would finance Remington Outdoor Company as it emerges from Bankruptcy, a move Reuters declared “test[ed] its firearm pledge,” but I digress.)
Yesterday, I spent time on the phone with Rob Hansel of Lone Wolf Distributors and John Heikkinen of Flint River Armory. The two companies sometimes do business together and recently had a rather large transaction go awry as a result of Intuit QuickBooks’ apparent anti-gun policy. The conversations were both interesting and enlightening, the latter because these issues highlight ongoing business practices with dishonest undertones on the part of Intuit.
On May 11th, Lone Wolf made two of what would be three transfers to Flint River. On May 14th they completed the third transfer. The transfers were made through Intuit’s QuickBooks merchant services; Flint River Armory had a merchant account for the purpose of credit card and ACH payment processing. At the time of the transaction, Flint River’s QuickBooks merchant account had been in place for around six weeks. According to Intuit’s own marketing blurb, merchants can use QuickBooks “to get paid 2x faster” – or not.
The transfer in question wasn’t for firearms, it was a separate business transaction. I’ll state that again: it had nothing to do with either components or complete firearms. The total amount of the three transfers: $150,000.
The money was withdrawn from Lone Wolf’s account by Intuit within thirty minutes. In accordance with standard business practices, it should have been deposited into Flint River’s account with relative speed. Instead, there was no sign of a pending deposit. Instead Intuit abruptly terminated Flint River’s merchant account.
Thus began several days of Flint River contacting Intuit three and four times a day. Finally, after approximately fifteen phone calls – each of which they documented – Flint River’s accountant got someone on the phone who would answer some of their questions. The accountant called John Heikkinen into his office, put the woman on speaker phone, and waited to see what she’d say.
Intuit had decided they would no longer do business with firearms companies, she told them. Flint River’s QuickBooks merchant account had been closed down because they’re a firearms company. Their other Intuit-owned services would also be terminated.
Intuit continued to deny John’s request for documentation of the transfer being reversed. In fact, they refused to provide documentation of any kind.
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Posts: 15149 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000
Looks like I'll be finding a new company to do my taxes. It would be bad enough if they just stopped doing business with them, but to steal their money, that is ludicrous.
Quite likely my payroll company will change as my employer is very much pro 2A.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Posts: 21277 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014
The level of stupidity with which Intuit has gone about this is going to cost them huge sums and no doubt a loss of other customers who will walk away. My only uncertainty is how many, if any, will loose their jobs there over this.
Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club! USN (RET), COTEP #192
Posts: 16597 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010
Intuit must be doing something illegal here. Makes me even more comfortable in my decision to use an accountant for my books. Their software cost me a lot of money this year.....
Posts: 308 | Location: NOVA | Registered: February 15, 2015
Originally posted by bald1: My only uncertainty is how many, if any, will loose their jobs there over this.
Easy, peasy - that number will be zero. This is a management decision that is being carried out by their employees.
quote:
Originally posted by Bytes: Deciding on what software to use for my taxes was a no brainer, TurboTax. Now I've got to do some research, TurboTax is not even an option.
I switched to H&R Block software a couple years ago when TurboTax doubled the price on the version I had been using for years. I like H&R Block software much better, I've had no issue and it works great.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001
I switched to H&R Block software a couple years ago when TurboTax doubled the price on the version I had been using for years. I like H&R Block software much better, I've had no issue and it works great.
Posts: 7520 | Location: MI | Registered: May 22, 2007
Originally posted by vthoky: I've used Quicken (not Quickbooks) since college (a long time ago), and been quite happy with the product.
This silliness, however, puts me in the mood to find another package and to write a nastygram to Quicken/Intuit.
I've also been a long time user. I'm willing to jump ship over this ordeal. What's the next choice? I use Quicken Home and Business. It tracks my mileage and expenses.
Posts: 45638 | Location: Pennsyltucky | Registered: December 05, 2001
Originally posted by vthoky: I've used Quicken (not Quickbooks) since college (a long time ago), and been quite happy with the product.
This silliness, however, puts me in the mood to find another package and to write a nastygram to Quicken/Intuit.
I've also been a long time user. I'm willing to jump ship over this ordeal. What's the next choice? I use Quicken Home and Business. It tracks my mileage and expenses.
Microsoft Money? Ah, heck... Microsoft pisses me off, too....
God bless America.
Posts: 14081 | Location: Frog Level Yacht Club | Registered: July 15, 2007
Microsoft Money Plus Sunset Deluxe, is still available and has worked fine for me for many years. No online services, and no support. Just the program on your computer.
Originally posted by vthoky: I've used Quicken (not Quickbooks) since college (a long time ago), and been quite happy with the product.
This silliness, however, puts me in the mood to find another package and to write a nastygram to Quicken/Intuit.
I've also been a long time user. I'm willing to jump ship over this ordeal. What's the next choice? I use Quicken Home and Business. It tracks my mileage and expenses.
This is what happens when one company gets too big a piece of the pie.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
On its face, taking monies without providing services, or in fact breaching contracts with no remedy smacks of malfeasance and should translate into a large payout with personal penalties.
