We finally bought a used car for our daughter to drive to work and school, and about a week later (2 weeks ago) it started making a weird noise when starting. Took it to a mechanic, who said it was timing chain related - maybe a bad tensioner. He said when the tensioners go, it usually affects the camshaft also, and total cost to repair would be $3500. Does this sound like he's telling the truth? The car is a 2009 Corolla with 115k.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 4x5,

My 2009 yaris had a timing chain as well. 60k miles at trade-in with no problems. I think the recommendation is to "check" at 90k miles, but not replace (check for stretching)

Not sure about the price, but it sure does seem high.

If it's an interference engine (valves share the same space as pistons) then timing belt/chain issues can affect the pistons (slamming into the pistons) but i've never heard of camshaft interference nor camshaft issues.

I'm not a mechanic, but I have a Ferrari Mondial with an interference engine. Most Ferrari guys are well aware of what a timing belt can cost you.

Hopefully, someone else with good mechanical knowledge will respond, but in my opinion, the estimate seems high and the camshaft comment seems suspect...

James

EDIT TO ADD:

There is an EXCELLENT SHOP in the south Denver area called "Toy Car Care". I totally trust them, maybe a call to see what they think? Not sure how far you are from Utah, but if in CO, I highly recommend them.

https://www.toycarcare.com/

Address: 6844 S Potomac St, Centennial, CO 80112
Hours: Closes 6PM
Phone: (303) 799-3895

Was that an independent mechanic or a dealership? At any rate I'd get another shop to listen to it and give a quote.

I'm a tight-ass who does his own work for the most part, but $3500 sounds excessive to me.

Just spoke to Toy Car Care.

First, they said quote "in 28 years, we've never replaced the timing chain on a corolla".

Further, they mentioned a seal that sometimes goes bad, but the cost is around 2500.

They did have an XJ that had been abused (infrequent oil changes) which did have the timing belt changed, but they didn't remember the cost.

They ALSO said that at that cost (3500), they would recommend a used engine.

Curiously, they also did not mention the "camshafts".

They are awesome!!! I even told them I got rid of my Yaris but they still spent 5 to 10 mins on the phone with me.

Good luck!

James

Thanks for that info! I appreciate it!

For shits and giggles, get a quote at the dealer...…..If it's something else that's a common corolla problem, they've probably seen it.

I'm not sure you have the correct diagnosis.

If there was a timing issue (stretched or lose chain causes camshaft to be out of time), wouldn't be a problem all the time and not just at startup?

My guess if the camshafts were out of position, wouldn't the camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor show something being out of sequence?

Is it showing any check engine lights?

I have the same car since new with 157,000 miles and not even a hint of timing chain noise. The oil gets changed when the 5000-mile reminder light comes on. Yours would have to have been pretty seriously neglected by its previous owner(s). But having said that, I find it hard to believe the actual camshafts are bad. A sticking hydraulic chain tensioner, chain stretch and sticking variable cam timing sprockets are conceivable. In fact there is a bulletin for some having cam sprocket problems. I would get not only a second opinion, but a tear-down (take the valve and timing chain covers off) and inspection as well.

If the camshaft lobes are found to be bad (they will have visible scoring on them), AFAIC the engine is done. Not only would there be an oil feed problem to the top end such as low oil pressure or something clogged, but the metal that was worn off has to go somewhere. I seriously doubt this has happened, however.

Never heard of a timing chain failing on a Toyota of any make/model.

Get a second opinion.

Does it make the noise only when it’s turning over or does it keep making it after it starts?


Get a second opinion. If the guy is telling the truth, the price is WAY too high.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
A sticking hydraulic chain tensioner...

What he said.

According to Mr Google, that car is equipped with a chain:

"The Corolla XRS comes with the 158-hp 2.4L 4-cylinder 2AZ-FE engine, shared with the Camry and RAV4. ... Timing belt or chain: Both the 1.8L and 2.4L engines have a timing chain; there is no timing belt. A timing chain doesn't need to be replaced unless there is a problem with it."

The following list indicates whether you particular engine may be an interference engine:

Toyota

1.5L (1A-C, 3A-C & 3E) Interference
• 1.5L (3E-E & 5E-FE) Non-Interference
• 1.6L DOHC (4A-F & 4A-FE) Non-Interference
• 1.6L DOHC (4A-GE & 4A-GZE) Non-Interference
• 1.6L SOHC Non-Interference
• 1.8L Diesel Interference
• 1.8L DOHC Gasoline Interference
1.8L 7AFE, 4AFE, 4AF – Non Interference
• 2.0L Non-Interference
• 2.2L Diesel Interference
• 2.2L Gasoline Non-Interference
• 2.4L Diesel Interference
• 2.5L Non-Interference
• 2.8L Non-Interference
• 3.0L Inline 6 (Except 1998 2JZ-GE) Non-Interference
• 3.0L Inline 6 VVT-i (1998 2JZ-GE) Interference
• 3.0L V6 Non-Interference
• 3.3L 3MZ-FE V6 W/ V VTi – Interference
• 3.4L Non-Interference
* 3.5L V-6 Non-Interference
• 4.7L Interference

Hope it helps.

My recommendation if it is an interference engine, just round up a used one. It's also less costly.

I will caution that things can still happen that should not based on interference or non interference. Just a general statement.

I have just had to get a valve job done to a Subaru when a timing belt broke well short of time to be replaced. Should not have gotten the valves but sure as h*!! did. Two mechanics that I have trusted for years & do a lot of my vehicle work said that it should not have happened.

Get multiple opinions ASAP. Keep us posted.

3500 sounds really high, you can get a remanufactured engine for much less than 3500. I'd definitely get a 2nd and 3rd opinion/quote. At any rate if the car really does require 3500 dollars worth of repairs I'd think about getting rid of it. I don't see pouring that kind of dough into a car 10 years old. Ask family members, coworkers and friends if they can recommend a good trust worthy mechanic. Good luck

I suspect that 3500 is the cost for a re-man engine in the event the timing chain fails and the valves collide with the pistons. If that happens when the engine speed is high enough not only is the cylinder head totaled so are the pistons and short block. The cost to replace the tensioner should be a lot less.

Something else that comes to mind is how freaking expensive repairs like this have become. Back around 1980 I had a 76 Honda Civic that broke the timing belt and because it was a non interference engine all I needed was a new belt. Got a friend to haul it do my apartment and headed to the auto parts store for a new timing belt and info on how the crankshaft and camshaft had to be pre-positioned for mounting the new belt. Got home and it took me all of 90 minutes to get the new belt installed and everything buttoned up for a test drive. I would bet for someone experienced with that engine it would have taken 45 minutes or a bit less.

So, how do we go from cars designed specifically to make repairs simple to the complex nearly impossible to repair engines of today? IMO we are going backwards in a lot of respects, cars becoming throwaway consumer goods instead of something you could hand down to your children.

If it happened in 2 weeks I'd be going back to the dealership. Is the car financed?

*IF* the timing chain and/or tensioner were going bad, it could/would cause problems on the camshaft/valves/pistons as I believe that is an interference engine. A top end rebuild certainly would run $thousands$, not to mention it could also cascade into a new head, block, bottom end...basically, new engine time.

*However* you said you only hear problems on startup. As others have said, bad timing would happen all the time the engine is running, not just starts.

So I'm thinking it's something far more simple, like a bad starter Bendix. Is there a way you can listen near the starter while someone else starts it up?

I just had the timing belt, tensioners and water pump AND a radiator replaced on my wife's Hyundai Tuscon. Total cost was $650. I'd get another opinion, maybe from a small indepentant mechanic.

quote:

Originally posted by EmpireState:
If it happened in 2 weeks I'd be going back to the dealership. Is the car financed?

It is financed.

A sticking starter solenoid can cause a noise on start-up due to the starter and flywheel gears gnashing their teeth, but this is a different noise from that made by a loose timing chain. It is hard to describe in prose.