^^^^Yep. Just read that and went back and edited my post. Looks like the unit was just installed and fired up and not setup correctly. Rusted heat exchanger is dead giveaway.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^Yep. Just read that and went back and edited my post. Looks like the unit was just installed and fired up and not setup correctly. Rusted heat exchanger is dead giveaway.

There is a plastic "pan" (I don't know what else it would be called) that has supposedly been improved on this unit as there's some flaw with this one (its the part we've been waiting on for some time from Luxaire) that has led to the condensation not being contained or drained properly.

I do know that the manifold has been replaced at least once. I also know I've seen him vacuuming that area (I'm not sure what clearing the manifold consists of)..

Since posting photos here has become difficult, I can take them and send them to someone that knows what they're looking at to tell me if I'm being snowed. I don't know what else to do...

We had a Trane single-stage 80% efficient furnace and Trane AC unit installed twenty years ago. The furnace has so far not given us a lick of trouble. (The AC condenser fan died a couple years ago, and the capacitor last year.)

We went with 80%, rather than high-efficiency, because

• Routing the exhaust through the side of the house was an iffy proposition
  
• The break-even point between 80% and high-efficiency was twenty years
  
• The high-efficiency furnaces of the time had a much higher failure rate and much lower life expectancy than the 80% products
  

We'd be at the calculated break-even this heating season except, if you look at natural gas prices in the year we bought the furnace vs. now, they've declined significantly. So the break-even is still a good ways out.

Furthermore: We've since made fairly substantial improvements to the home's energy efficiency in other respects, thus stretching the break-even out even further.

As for the installer vs. product argument: It's ridiculous, IMO. You need quality in both.

quote:

Originally posted by goatboyz:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^Yep. Just read that and went back and edited my post. Looks like the unit was just installed and fired up and not setup correctly. Rusted heat exchanger is dead giveaway.

There is a plastic "pan" (I don't know what else it would be called) that has supposedly been improved on this unit as there's some flaw with this one (its the part we've been waiting on for some time from Luxaire) that has led to the condensation not being contained or drained properly.

I do know that the manifold has been replaced at least once. I also know I've seen him vacuuming that area (I'm not sure what clearing the manifold consists of)..

Since posting photos here has become difficult, I can take them and send them to someone that knows what they're looking at to tell me if I'm being snowed. I don't know what else to do...

It sounds like that system has always been producing too much condensation since new. Gas combustion produces some condensation which is normal, but with the other problems you’ve had with the system over the years it sounds like way too much is being produced.

It either wasn’t set up correctly when installed or the flue pipe is too small of a diameter or both. I would honestly search out other installers in your area and get estimates from them. Also ask them about how they will set up the new installation as far as gas analyzing (also correct gas orifices) it and also checking the size of the flue pipe. You could also be restricted on your inlet and/or exit air flow. There’s a whole host of things that need to be looked at.

quote:

Originally posted by goatboyz:

There is a plastic "pan" (I don't know what else it would be called) that has supposedly been improved on this unit as there's some flaw with this one (its the part we've been waiting on for some time from Luxaire) that has led to the condensation not being contained or drained properly.

Transition assembly.

Did it crack or deteriorate?

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

As for the installer vs. product argument: It's ridiculous, IMO. You need quality in both.

For someone not directly in the business, your comment is understandable and would be common thinking for most people.
As we have been taught to buy quality products most of our lives. With most of these products being plug and play.

However, thinking about some basic principles, you will see how things are different when it comes to the mechanical trades.
The products are not plug and play.

#1 you don't just buy a furnace, it needs to be sized for the structure. This is for longevity, comfort and efficiency of the unit.

#2 return ducting must be adequately sized to insure proper airflow. If not, the unit will operate outside of its specifications and will prematurely fail.

#3 supply ducting must also be adequately sized to insure proper airflow. For the same reasons as the return air.

#4 air filters are another item which must allow for proper airflow. As restrictions will increase the temperature rise across the heat exchanger.

#5 gas lines must be properly sized to deliver the correct amount of pressure to the unit.
#5a gas controls must be set to the proper fuel pressures to achieve proper combustion.

#6 blower motors and controls must be set to insure proper temperature rise across the heat exchanger.
* running to hot will crack heat exchangers.
** running to low will rott and corrode heat exchangers.

#7 proper drainage to remove condensate to insure proper operation.

#8 proper electrical connections, since units must have adequite grounding for flame sense.

#9 proper exhaust (flue) piping to remove combustion products and to allow for drainage of condensate.

#10 proper combustion piping to allow enough air for complete combustion.

These are some of the common things which must be considered when installing a gas fired furnace.

Now, you might be thinking this is all so common and every installer must be doing it.
You couldnt be further from the truth.

Competition is another factor. Getting the job, having a cheaper price to get said job.
How can they be cheaper, by cutting corners. By not taking the time needed to do a proper install or setting up the equipment properly to operate within the manufactures specifications. Not checking or setting the fuel pressures, not checking or setting blower speeds for proper temperature rise, etc.

Shortcuts all lead to premature equipment failures.

Techs may not be properly trained, have a good work ethics or are pressured to get jobs done quickly to increase the companies bottom line.
This leads to problems for the clients.

Take for instance, buy a gas control from any manufacture you want;
First tech installs it and gets the unit back up and running. Done
Second tech installs it and checks/sets the fuel pressure to insure proper combustion.

Which one did the job correctly and was looking out for their client?

Now we have a blower motor failure;
First tech changes the motor and unit is up and running. Done.
Second tech changes motor and checks/sets motor speeds for proper temperature rise.

Which one did the job correctly and was looking out for thier client?

What it comes down to, you can have any manufacture's product. If its not sized, installed and setup correctly, all you have is a pos which will have premature failures.

Any piece of equipment which is properly sized, installed, setup to operate within manufactures specifications and maintained by a competent tech will outlast one which is operating improperly due to skipped procedures.

Remember, the installer *is* completing the manufacturing process onsite, in your home. They might as well print logos and install them on every piece of equipment they install.
For the people who don't understand this comment. When you buy a car, its complete, drive it home. You don't buy the parts, take em home and assemble them.
Your HVAC guy is connecting pieces together and adjusting them to insure proper operation.

I really could care less if it has a White Rodgers gas control instead of Honeywell (I'll take the one that was adjusted correctly).
Could care less if it has a PSC or variable speed motor (I'll take the one which is set properly).
This burner is a different shape or who's name is on the board or capacitors.

Most every manufacture in the business is using products from major companies. Designs change and every manufacture has its ups and downs. As a consumer, you're not going to know when it may happen until it's to late.

But one thing *is* for sure, if the tech doesn't do his/her part, its guaranteed to cause problems and premature failures.