quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:



on a side note - we have THOUSANDs upon THOUSANDS of old planes in boneyards such as Davis-Monthan. I have always wondered realistically what it would take to make them operational again

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And a battleship in Pearl Harbor.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:



on a side note - we have THOUSANDs upon THOUSANDS of old planes in boneyards such as Davis-Monthan. I have always wondered realistically what it would take to make them operational again

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And a battleship in Pearl Harbor.

that could be a movie

there's one in NC too

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This whole discussion is similar to worrying that we don’t have enough horses to fight a large war like we did in WWI.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
This whole discussion is similar to worrying that we don’t have enough horses to fight a large war like we did in WWI.

LOL

This whole discussion sounds like a bunch of drunk old guys at the corner bar.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
This whole discussion is similar to worrying that we don’t have enough horses to fight a large war like we did in WWI.

I get it. You're not worried. Great.

Please inform me as to why I shouldn't be worried. You obviously have some information that I don't have about how a big war like WWII will never fought again. Cool.

Explain why. Give some detail to the rest of us that don't know that, please.

I am not being snarky. I am standing here with my hat in my hand asking for information to allay my concerns.

Thanks.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
This whole discussion is similar to worrying that we don’t have enough horses to fight a large war like we did in WWI.

I get it. You're not worried. Great.

Please inform me as to why I shouldn't be worried. You obviously have some information that I don't have about how a big war like WWII will never fought again. Cool.

Explain why. Give some detail to the rest of us that don't know that, please.

I am not being snarky. I am standing here with my hat in my hand asking for information to allay my concerns.

Thanks.

Bruce

Because at the end of the day, anything made in China is still made in China. Which means there's a 99% chance it's a piece of crap created by someone who wouldn't be qualified to flip burgers in the US for use by someone who wouldn't be qualified to flip burgers in the US.

I disagree.

Look at every high-end product and they now have a factory in China. Calphalon, Patagonia, Red Wing, Danner, Wusthof, Apple, Dell, Yeti. The list is endless.
Over the last 10 years, they have gone from making crappy, disposable junk to making all of the boutique brands. Maybe not the highest of the high-end lines for them, but probably the ones you are using and the quality it there.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
My nightmare scenario is: EMP knocks out the grid and fries all of our technology. China establishes a beachhead in California with human wave attacks. They roll 50 armored divisions onto the shore and don't stop until they hit DC.

We would be done before we even got started.

Bruce

In this modern era, a predatory country doesn't need to invade its prey in order to take it over. Look at what China has done to a variety of 3rd world countries particularly in Africa: industrialized lending resulting in unpayable debt, infrastructure improvements with ulterior motives, long-term agreements towards natural resource extraction, acquisition/control of state owned assets. All of which resulting in severe trade imbalances favoring China and reinforcing its strategic economic position. There's over 20 African countries that are beholden to China now, at some point, the native populace of those countries will revolt, what happens next will be interesting.

What kind of war? Can we sustain an effort like WWII? Nope. But then, we aren't an offensive nation building an empire (silly Lib talking points notwithstanding). So no, we couldn't take over Asia. We would have some outstanding initial successes and then get bogged down in an endless war of attrition.

OTOH, China's however-many million man Army won't do them a lick of good over there. They cannot project power the way we can. All we have to do is knock out what few strategic resources they have and then they can have all the endless supplies of men and materiel that they want.

Combine that with Trump in office and our military back on the upswing, I'm feeling pretty safe on a grand-scale.

And as far as the TEOTWAKI type EMP-invade scenario...why would they invade? They could just with a combo of EMP and cyber attack, take our infrastructure offline and pass us by as the world's only super-power...if that scenario were realistic.

WW1 was not like the Civil War
WW2 was not like WW1
Korean War was not like WW2
Vietnam War was not like the Korean War
Gulf War was not like the Vietnam War
War on Terrorism is not like any other war we fought, etc

War evolves

I imagine Chinese transport ships would be on the bottom of the pacific before they could pass Hawaii.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
My nightmare scenario is: EMP knocks out the grid and fries all of our technology. China establishes a beachhead in California with human wave attacks. They roll 50 armored divisions onto the shore and don't stop until they hit DC.

We would be done before we even got started.

Bruce

What do we have that they don't already? Why bother?
No really, thinking on it now I just don't see what would be gained by force better then what they are already doing.

Careful.

If you think that something won't happen, or even worse, that it's totally impossible then that's what you'll have to face.

Your opponent will always work his strengths against your weaknesses - your misconceptions will always be used against you.

V.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
My nightmare scenario is: EMP knocks out the grid and fries all of our technology. China establishes a beachhead in California with human wave attacks. They roll 50 armored divisions onto the shore and don't stop until they hit DC.

We would be done before we even got started.

Bruce

And they would transport them here how? Rubber rafts?

The US Navy has more ships, and combat power than pretty much every other navy combined. (now I agree that we shouldnt' rest and need to KEEP it this way) but looking at aircraft carriers alone we outnumber the entire world something like 3 to 1...

You know who our current military looks like? The Germans in WWII. Experienced troops, personal weapons from the last conflict, the best planes and tanks, the highest tech of anyone, really.

They lost to a combination of poor political leadership, bad strategic decisions, dependence on critical resources that they couldn't produce themselves and being overwhelmed by a country that outproduced them with better logistics.

I hope we don't end up the same.

In the event of a widespread global conflict, I think we could produce what we need to prevail.
But can we pull together as a nation and have the will to slog it out long term?
Are there Pattons and LeMays among us willing to take the fight to our enemy and lead us?
And I believe that our electrical grid is extremely vulnerable and a coordinated attack on the grid would severely hinder any response, both in the immediate aftermath and long term.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
This whole discussion is similar to worrying that we don’t have enough horses to fight a large war like we did in WWI.

I get it. You're not worried. Great.

Please inform me as to why I shouldn't be worried. You obviously have some information that I don't have about how a big war like WWII will never fought again. Cool.

Explain why. Give some detail to the rest of us that don't know that, please.

I am not being snarky. I am standing here with my hat in my hand asking for information to allay my concerns.

Thanks.

Bruce

It’s just that we won’t ever again be fighting a twentieth-century war that requires the mobilization of the entire economy. Warfare has changed to make huge investments in industrial material as obsolete as the need for a million horses to fight a war.

To put it in perspective, consider this. Do you think that Germany would have invaded Poland in 1939 if Poland was nuclear capable, and had effective means to deliver those weapons on Germany? Do you think that Hitler would have launched Operation Barbarossa against a nuclear capable USSR? Any nation facing an existential threat would resort to its nuclear arsenal. To point, the U.S. doctrine throughout the Cold War has been the first-use of its nuclear arsenal in Europe against an invading USSR conventional army. There’s no reason to believe the United States wouldn’t use its weapons against an invading army in North America.

Another consideration is the global nature of economies. China benefits from trade with, and holds so much debt of the United States that invading the U.S. homeland would cost them as much as us. China is not motivated to cross an ocean. They want to control Asia, and want us out of the way to do that. They want Formosa back, and need us gone for that. Both of those goals won’t require crossing the Pacific with an invasion force. What this means is that fights will be localized and limited, or proxy. Nuclear capable countries don’t go head to head. As has already been discussed, fights now are with the army you already have.

In short, the days when Ford will shut down all production to make bombers is a thing of history.

Already there. China is trying to arrange alternate sources for the inputs we provide, as they already have the manufacturing and people.

Its WWII, but we'd be the Germans - better troops, and tech - but they'd have the manpower, and manufacturing.

Even Russia caused a hell of a lot of trouble for the NAZIs, and they had, essentially, no training nor equipment.

China's not going to invade mainland US - no one is - so long as we still have private arms, and AI hasn't gotten to a point to make rounding us up a simple matter. (Give it 50 years.)

Really, the next major war/any major wars, will be a matter of pumping out drones - and we cannot do that, and are not prepared to do so.

150million dollar planes, flown by 20 million dollar pilots, will not be competitive against the same money put into mass drones, unless those planes carry nukes.

The only chance Asian nations have, to stay free, is to learn from Iraq/Afghanistan/Switzerland, and train, and arm, their populations, and get them to BELIEVE that there will never be a legitimate order to surrender to an invader, and to fight to the last man.

Pair that desire, with first-world education, and some proper training, and they can pretty much foil anything short of a fully automated force.

next time you are in an arena w/ 40,000 people,
look around at who is there.
then think a mandatory draft being implemented.


what percent of the people under 35 do you see that would make it through basic training

Release the Area 51 tech..What we don't know, we don't know!