quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I'd love to be able to afford one as my work vehicle. But currently for a road trip... hell he had a damn truck... it would have been cheaper to just put a generator in the bed of the thing.

As other have said... 6,000 to add a circuit and charger to his home... the guy was an idiot way before he bought the truck.

It wasn’t $6k to add a circuit and charger. It was $6k to upgrade his panel and electric service and another $10k to add chargers to his house and at his work. I don’t believe the article says what kind of charger, but the kind with batteries, like the Tesla Powerwall, are not cheap. Also keep in mind those are Canadian Loonies not US dollars.

See I disagree with that statement. I know the infrastructure isn’t there but I also don’t think the EV’s themselves are there. In fact I think pure EV’s will never be there for the everyday car owner. Buses, short haul trucks, etc sure maybe those.

I’m not a car guy. I don’t own a family truckster for one thing, a classic car for picnics, and an EV for my commute. I want one (1) car that I can use for nearly all my vehicle needs plus a son in law with a pickup truck. Multiple cars, multiple insurance payments, extra cars around my driveway? No thanks.

I have thought for a long time that the best solution is a plug in hybrid that costs a similar amount to its ICE equivalent. It doesn’t maximize every metric but it hits most of them better than an either/or. It also allows me to buy one (1) car for my needs which is better for me, better for the environment, better for infrastructure. Just better.

I don’t see an EV going 500 miles on a tank and then taking 5 minutes to charge. That’s what my Subaru can do every day all day long so that’s my metric. It doesn’t even have to match, it just has to come a hell of a lot closer than it is. (Public math 16.6 gallon tank x 34mpg easily on highway = 564.4)(Crosstek 2.5L engine)

For me, and I think most people, I could buy an EV and do most of my short range stuff. I think I could commute to work but at 150 mile round trip it would be tighter than I prefer. So I would have to buy an EV, love it for the great stuff it can do, but then have a second car for the trips down to Key West or the drive to Texas to see family. And so we are back to I don’t want 2 cars.

Diesel (wishful thinking gas is fine) plug in hybrid. Good sized gas tank for trips. A full sized spare or at least a donut, not a can of run flat, that’s bullshit. Looking at you Subaru. Lol That is a vehicle I would probably buy.

quote:

I don’t see an EV going 500 miles on a tank and then taking 5 minutes to charge. That’s what my Subaru can do every day all day long so that’s my metric. It doesn’t even have to match, it just has to come a hell of a lot closer than it is. (Public math 16.6 gallon tank x 34mpg easily on highway = 564.4)(Crosstek 2.5L engine)

If you're willing to wait five minutes longer then Toyota will get you 745mi in ten minutes.

Well that’s the rub though. That battery doesn’t exist yet. I read the article. It’s in development. Put me firmly in the camp of I will believe it when I can put my grubby hands on it.

I also still stand by the hybrid idea. I live in hurricane country. I’ve lived through a bunch of them. Losing power for long stretches isn’t unheard of. Hurricane Ivan when I drove back I had 50 gallons of fuel in red gas cans. I put 2 off to the side and told the wife, if we get down to those we are leaving again. We didn’t have power for a week and a half I believe. Gasoline has built in advantages that electricity can never overcome. Put me in the hybrid camp.

Slated for release in 2027, let's say they hit road blocks and it's released in 2030, seven years is far short of never.

Innovation will make these more practical. For now they are cool toys that are practical for the half of the population that lives in cities, suburbs, and exurbs. It will be a very long time before they could ever possibly replace gas vehicles completely.

I've looked through this entire thread, and I don't see that anyone has yet mentioned this:

Mr. Bala lives in La Salle, Manitoba, Canada. Near Winnipeg.
And he had his little problem in the summer.
What do you think that Lightning is going to do in the winter, in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada?
I had a prof once from Winnipeg. Driving in the winter you have "square tire" syndrome.
What will that big battery do then?

He's an idiot.

Everybody keeps waiting for the big breakthrough in batteries that everyone is just positive is going to happen. Maybe it happens. Maybe it’s not as big a breakthrough as they claim. Maybe maybe maybe.

I’ll wait to judge until these 700 mile range batteries actually exist in production cars.

I would still prefer a smaller version of said battery put into a plug in hybrid. All the power options. Gas, plug in, and straight battery. A smaller one of those with 150 mile charge range and a gas engine. Thing will have a massive range.

Of course all this is bluster until Toyota actually puts it in a production car.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

I don’t see an EV going 500 miles on a tank and then taking 5 minutes to charge. That’s what my Subaru can do every day all day long so that’s my metric. It doesn’t even have to match, it just has to come a hell of a lot closer than it is. (Public math 16.6 gallon tank x 34mpg easily on highway = 564.4)(Crosstek 2.5L engine)

If you're willing to wait five minutes longer then Toyota will get you 745mi in ten minutes.

That’s a solid article on solid state batteries. They key isn’t the charging time (if you have a garage and/or your own L2 charger) imo. People who obsess about such things have no experience and/or have range anxiety. The key is the weight. This Ford EV Truck, the Chevy, the Hummer, the Dodge that is coming, look at the curb weight of the vehicles. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous. Talk about tearing up the got damn roads and highways when everyone is driving such a vehicle. I mean batteries in their current state..put it this way, a Model 3 Tesla weighs as much as my truck. Solid state batteries will cut the weight in half and get a car, CUV, truck, what have you, back to go the curb weight of gas vehicles and that’s what we need. As I said 10 years ago when I first leased my car, or now, EV’s make sense for a commuter type vehicle. A small hatchback, a small sedan, small CUV. EV Trucks are bullshit until the weight comes down and the cost is something reasonable. All these new EV trucks are like buying an old computer. Obsolete the minute you drive it off the lot which is why EV’s depreciate so quickly. If you want to save money, save gas, I mean straight finances, not fucking climate crap, the Leaf, the Bolt, or anything equivalent makes perfect sense today, not for everyone, but for people who need a run about vehicle to commute, run errands, etc, around the radius of their domicile. I would not get fooled into purchasing or leasing one for anything else. I like the Rivian, for example, but the price is obscene. That’s not a truck, like the one I have which was purchased to use the bed, tow what I need, and drive in all weather conditions. The Rivian, like the Teslas, is a fancy pancy luxury vehicle. You could beat that Rivian in spades by buying a Leaf or Bolt, and a gas truck based on actual use case instead of image. And make no mistake. Most buy vehicles for image reasons, or for some capability the vehicle has, that they think is neat, but they will never, ever, use. The automotive market in this country is completely fake and image/marketing driven. Few people purchase vehicles for exactly what they are going to use it for. Instead, sensationalism, marketing, drives their purchase. Much like the same dumbasses get a dog for looks, or because they think it looks cool, instead of buying one for temperament and what they are actually going to use it for or do with it.

Pre, I agree to a point. Charging time means shit at home, I agree. It starts to mean something if I'm driving my grandkids back to their mom and I need a couple fuel stops. In my car, it is a 5 minute gas and go. I don't do that all the time but I do it enough that I don't want to charge to 80% over 40 minutes or whatever the current rate is.

Going back to the original intent of this thread, the Canadian guy was an idiot but there is a certain responsibility that the "system", car dealers, mass media, government, bear in that they are lying their asses off to sell these vehicles. Your argument for why they shouldn't even sell trucks makes sense, yet they do sell trucks, and advertise tow weights that aren't even close to true when viewed from a range viewpoint. (like that truck towing video above)

Lots of people buy a car thinking, "it's a car", what do I possibly have to worry about? Smart? No, but I could pull up a hundred reviews raving about the vehicle in question and in reality it is nearly useless as a pickup truck.

Yeah, I agree with Prefontaine, We had a guy that drove an International day cab for us.

He has to keep in mind that the truck has a lot of weight when hauling a load or going home empty.

The new Hummer SUV weighs more than his International.

Imagine if some goof wad tries to take the Hummer through a covered bridge or avoid a deer on a dirt road.

every time we humans come up with something better there are negative consequences to it.... this is just a fact of progress...

It is obvious to anyone that we do not have the infrastructure to support everyone going electric but I would say look at what has been created in the last 50-60 years just to support our gas guzzlers.....

All true. One potential problem with EV though is that for it to really turn the corner we need “stuff” to happen. Infrastructure for sure needs to happen. On the vehicle side though we truly need a huge breakthrough in tech. Not a small one, a huge one. We need their ability to store a charge to triple. We need it to be lighter. We need it to charge much much faster. And the kicker, it has to be much more affordable.

I reread that Toyota article. You know what stood out? The conditional language. Could, might, maybe. This stuff isn’t guaranteed at all. Toyota was quoted as production by 2027 but on every other point they were hedging. 2027 is a goal, that’s what it reads to me.

I’m sure I sound like a flat earther to some of you. Couldn’t be further from the truth. A plug in hybrid with ICE equivalent or better range (bugs worked out, I’m not a beta tester lol) would be in my garage yesterday.

EV dreams (not you short commuter solar panel used Chevy Bolt guys) all start with the anticipated almost zero doubt that the tech speed bumps will be overcome. That’s just not reality. Reality is that maybe they will and maybe they won’t. Issue is government and business are conspiring to force us down this path regardless. That’s dumb.

I have come to love Subaru’s. I would love to buy a Subaru hybrid. They have some kind of deal to use Toyota tech is my understanding. However, it’s not ready for prime time. It’s crazy more expensive than the gas version. The battery is tiny. By tiny I mean tiny range. Takes up a ton of space. Knocks my beloved 16.6 gallon tank down a bunch and even takes away the donut. They give you a can of run flat. Goofy. A solid state battery would probably make my hybrid dreams come true.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
a plug in hybrid. All the power options. Gas, plug in, and straight battery.

I'll apologize now for drifting the thread, but this seemed like a good place to ask: why the hype over plug-in? [Probably not having thought it through far enough] I figure a hybrid ought to be able to charge itself. Doing so wouldn't tax the grid so much, wouldn't require users to purchase expensive home charging equipment, would avoid waiting at or searching for public chargers, and may possibly help tamp down the range-anxiety thing.

Yes, the car would weigh a bit more at that point, carrying around its own generator or other charging mechanism, but beyond that I'm not sure I yet see the reason for the push toward plug-ins.

Options. It seems like an advantage to start off your day fully charged. With a decent battery, especially if this solid state tech works out as advertised, you could conceivably do all your driving without the gas motor ever turning over. Right now the Toyota RAV4 hybrid can do like 20 miles until it’s out. That would get me groceries and coffee without using up gas.

It just seems like a relatively easy option to use whatever you have available. No outlet? Then yea, it charges from the engine and braking.

I don’t see a downside to a plug that you may never use. What do you see as the downside? It shouldn’t cost much more.

I’m certainly not hyping anything. Most of this stuff isn’t ready for my prime time use or I would have one already. I almost did but the price differential on the RAV4 ICE to hybrid in 2019 when I bought was 4500 bucks. I couldn’t make that math work. As for taxing the grid, I don’t give a shit. Smoke em if you got em boys. Lol

Reminds me of the TFL experiment where they drive a ford lightning to Alaska from Colorado .

https://youtube.com/playlist?l...sBvxh9C-8WzTY8PxiLCW

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
It just seems like a relatively easy option to use whatever you have available. No outlet? Then yea, it charges from the engine and braking.

I don’t see a downside to a plug that you may never use. What do you see as the downside? It shouldn’t cost much more.

Okay, perhaps I've misunderstood. If a hybrid vehicle is touted as a plug-in hybrid, does it still have onboard charging? In that case, then I've been completely wrong in my thinking, and you're absolutely right -- the plug offers an option. I had been thinking it was an either-or thing, either plug-in or onboard.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’m certainly not hyping anything.

Oh, I hope you didn't take that as a stab at you -- it certainly wasn't intended that way. The "hype" I see is from all the EV advertising.

Now you got me thinking. I’ll admit I’ve always assumed plug in hybrid still did the regenerative braking and charging. That might be my misunderstanding. Down another rabbit hole. Lol

The hype is real. A dozen positives for every mild watered down negative. It’s almost like they are trying to trick us. Feels a little Brer Rabbit-ish.

Serious question: To extend road trips like OP: Could he put a Honda 2k or 5k in the bed and have it running/charging while he drove? I know it would not self sustain, even with the 5k, but could he for example turn the 200 mile range into 300?

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I think it is more that he is an idiot.

He didn't check to see what he would need to do to charge the truck at home and work.

He tried to take it on a cross country trip, which I think most people know is going to present problems. Even if you didn't know, you should have checked that out.

Requiring 6 months for repairs is the part of this story that isn't really at his feet. The rest may show why electrics aren't suitable for many people, but that is his fault for not understanding the tech and its limitations at this time.

I wouldn't buy an electric car - I drive far enough often enough that it wouldn't work.

I agree. The guy should have known more about what he was getting into. For most people I know, an EV would have to be a 2nd or 3rd car, not an only car.

I think we need an infrastructure system for EVs where you don't own the batteries - you just use them.

Make the cars so the batteries are simple plug and replace and make the recharging stations like gas stations: you pull up to the island and a robotic arm switches out your battery for a fully charged one in roughly the same amount of time as a gas fill-up. The station then charges the battery for as long as it takes.