quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
So… It’s normal to prescribe amphetamines to kids. How the hell did humanity ever make it before now?

Hyperbole much? Have a little intellectual honesty.

Every drug has risks and benefits that have to be balanced.

Any issue that only impacts a percentage of the population isn't going to have a meaningful effect on the survival of humanity, no matter how bad it is for the impacted individuals.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
FYI - I know it changes brain chemistry; that’s the exact problem.

Sorry but I believe I have far more experience in this than you do. Guaranteed.

You clearly aren't a psychiatrist, so I'm not sure where your confidence comes from.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Raise any boys? Been diagnosed yourself? Do you just close a blind eye to all these people on Adderall/Vyvanse/Ritalin?

I’ve seen people w/ critical emotional breakdowns with those drugs. Scary as shit.

And it is the drugs creating severe emotional friability in normal males.

What happens when you stop taking the drug? Have you ever tried it?

Whether you do, in fact, have more experience with ADHD than I do or not, you sure aren't shy about climbing WAY up on an unwarranted high horse.

I have ADHD. I've taken stimulant meds (as prescribed by a psychiatrist, not a GP) on and off, mostly on, for more than 20 years.

I find the side effects somewhat unpleasant and have a hard time seeing why people would want to abuse them or take them if they didn't need them, but for me, the unpleasant side effects are outweighed by the significant benefits.

I've always taken days off here and there and have had periods of a few weeks to a few months of not taking stimulants multiple times. It's never been a problem except, of course, that I then have to deal with the issues with untreated ADHD.

I have kids. At least one has ADHD.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
I’ve seen people labeled ADHD live quite normally without the fucking stimulants. It requires addressing how they learn and how they understand the world. Not a handful of pills because that’s the easiest and cheapest path.

That's great. You know not everybody is the same, right? Some people "grow out" of ADHD. Some people can adequately manage ADHD with therapy. Some people really benefit from stimulant medications.

If you want to argue that stimulants are over-prescribed, fine. There's definitely room for discussion there, but an absolute blanket condemnation of stimulant meds being an appropriate treatment for anyone is absurd.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
The cost on young men is too high for this pill-pushing Cosmetic psychopharmacology nonsense.

Good luck. I’m done w adhd.

Do what you want with yours and you. I don’t really give two wits.

Cosmetic psychopharmacology? Seriously?

Are you this dismissive of other psychiatric disorders?

And why the continued harping on "young men?" You know girls can have ADHD, too, right? Estimates vary, but around 20-30% of individuals diagnosed with ADHD are female and the scientific literature consistently finds that females are underdiagnosed compared to males.

There is more. Clearly not a good sign for Cerebral. You will notice that Adderall and Oxycontin are both Schedule 2 drugs. I predict this is a prelude to some DEA investigations of these companies and prescribers.

Cerebral’s Preferred Pharmacy Truepill Halts Adderall Prescriptions for All Customers
Online pharmacy startup says it is temporarily pausing Schedule 2 drugs ‘out of an abundance of caution’

Online pharmacy company Truepill Inc. said it is temporarily halting prescriptions for Adderall and other controlled substances used to treat attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, and partner Cerebral Inc. told its clinicians to direct those orders to patients’ local pharmacies.

Cerebral, an online mental-health company based in San Francisco that describes Truepill as its preferred pharmacy, informed its clinicians of Truepill’s decision in a Friday email viewed by The Wall Street Journal. The email said Truepill would no longer support mailing Schedule 2 controlled substances, including Adderall and Vyvanse, “to any of their customers.”

Truepill said that, “out of an abundance of caution,” it is temporarily pausing all fulfillment of Schedule 2 substances while it evaluates appropriate next steps. It said Schedule 2 substances such as Adderall make up less than 1% of its total prescription volume. Truepill didn’t provide a list of other partners affected by its decision.

Some of the nation’s largest pharmacies have blocked or delayed prescriptions over the past year from clinicians working for telehealth startups that have sprung up to treat ADHD, according to pharmacies and people familiar with the issue.

The Journal reported last week that pharmacies including Walmart Inc., CVS Health Corp. and Walgreens Boots Alliance Inc. have blocked or delayed prescriptions for companies treating ADHD online or have blocked individual prescribers, according to people familiar with the issue.

Walmart confirmed it has blocked some prescribers and some prescriptions. A spokesman for Walgreens outlined the company’s prescribing practices but wouldn’t discuss the decision to block prescriptions. A CVS spokesman said its controlled-substance compliance group interviews clinicians it flags for potentially excessive prescribing practices.

Truepill is going further by stopping indefinitely all prescriptions of Adderall and other Schedule 2 controlled substances.

Cerebral said in the email to clinicians Friday that Truepill would continue filling other prescriptions, including for Schedule 3 through 5 controlled substances that the federal government designates as having lower potential for abuse.

The government classifies Schedule 2 substances as drugs “with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence.” Other Schedule 2 substances include OxyContin and Vicodin.

At the same time, stimulants such as Adderall can have significant benefits for people properly diagnosed with ADHD, psychiatrists say.



Cerebral said it is working with Truepill “to ensure a smooth transition for impacted clients and prevent a disruption in the client’s prescribed, evidence-backed course of treatment.” It said Truepill’s action affects less than 2% of its total prescriptions.

Some nurse practitioners at Cerebral say they have felt pressured to prescribe stimulants like Adderall, and say the companies’ 30-minute evaluations aren’t long enough to properly diagnose ADHD, the Journal reported in March.

“We do not pressure our clinicians and have not disciplined, reprimanded or dismissed a clinician for not prescribing medications,” Cerebral said. “We have a multistep approach to assessing our clients and provide our clinicians with the support to make the best decisions on behalf of their patients.”

Truepill is a mail-order pharmacy startup based in California that sends out medications prescribed by other telehealth companies. It was valued at $1.6 billion in a private funding round last fall, according to research firm PitchBook Data Inc.

Cerebral was valued at $4.8 billion in a late 2021 funding round, according to PitchBook.

Cerebral has encouraged its clinicians to fill prescriptions through Truepill, describing it internally as its “preferred pharmacy,” according to documents viewed by the Journal. Truepill then ships those medications in Cerebral-branded boxes. Cerebral includes a section on clinicians’ employee-feedback page that tracks the percentage of prescriptions they send to Truepill versus local pharmacies, according to people familiar with Cerebral’s prescribing practices and a copy of a feedback page viewed by the Journal.

Cerebral recognizes as revenue sales of prescriptions that go through Truepill, boosting Cerebral’s top-line growth rate, according to a person familiar with the company’s operations.

Cerebral said clients choose which pharmacy they want to fill their prescriptions. It declined to comment on its financial arrangement with Truepill. Truepill also declined to comment on Cerebral’s business practices.

Last month Truepill said it would shut down a subsidiary called Ahead that offered ADHD treatment online and competed directly with Cerebral.

Write to Rolfe Winkler at rolfe.winkler@wsj.com

LINK: https://www.wsj.com/articles/c...78?mod=hp_lista_pos1

I think this proves that investigative journalism from the WSJ gets read. Cerebral gets a subpoena from Federal Prosecutors.

LINK: https://www.wsj.com/articles/c...ors-11651950307?mod=
Cerebral Inc., the online mental-health company, said on Saturday it has been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors as part of an investigation into possible violations of the Controlled Substances Act.

Cerebral, one of a group of telehealth startups that have sprung up to treat attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, said the grand jury subpoena was received on Wednesday from the U.S. attorney’s office for the Eastern District of New York. Cerebral said the subpoena was issued to Cerebral Medical Group, the corporation it uses to contract with clinicians and provide healthcare services. Cerebral’s statement said that it intends to cooperate with the investigation and that no regulatory or law-enforcement authority has accused it of violating any law.

A spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office declined to comment Saturday.

The Wall Street Journal reported in March that some of Cerebral’s nurse practitioners said they felt pressured by the company to prescribe stimulants and that they felt the company’s 30-minute patient evaluations weren’t long enough to properly diagnose ADHD. The company said at the time that it doesn’t pressure clinicians to prescribe stimulants and that it is providing an essential service in the U.S., where demand for mental-health treatment far outstrips supply.

Some pharmacies have blocked or delayed certain prescriptions from Cerebral prescribers over concerns that the company was writing too many stimulant prescriptions, the Journal reported last month. Cerebral’s preferred pharmacy partner, Truepill Inc., stopped filling all prescriptions for stimulants. Cerebral has said prescription delays occurred because of confusion around telehealth policies.

A former Cerebral executive also filed a lawsuit alleging the company put growth before patient safety. Cerebral said the allegations in the lawsuit were false and that it would vigorously defend itself.

On Wednesday, Cerebral executives told its clinicians that the company would pause prescribing controlled substances, including Adderall and other stimulants, to treat ADHD in new patients. Cerebral’s chief medical officer wrote to clinicians that the company would continue prescribing controlled substances for other mental-health conditions, and continue to treat existing ADHD patients with stimulants, the Journal reported, citing an internal message.

Insider earlier on Saturday reported that Cerebral had been subpoenaed.

Cerebral said in its statement Saturday that controlled substances are appropriate treatment for many conditions, and that the company works to ensure that its policies and procedures for prescribing such drugs are medically appropriate and comply with the law.

“The safe medical care of our patients is our highest priority,” it said.

Write to Rolfe Winkler at rolfe.winkler@wsj.com

It's just a scam that was justified by COVID. 30 minutes of video chat to diagnose and prescribe? They are taking the exam money in exchange for prescriptions, period. In many cases for drug seekers that just want stimulants.

I have thought at times I might have a mild case of ADHD. I had trouble staying on task for things I found boring and pointless in school, but if something piques my interest I can focus much more sharply. But I've never pursued a diagnosis, and I've been around shrinks enough that they would probably know better if I really was.

That said I do have diagnosed conditions, and have found the right meds (very hard to find the right ones) in the right dose makes a big difference. And those diagnoses indicate using the opposite of stimulants. But the goal is always to use the minimum needed.

As for the opioid crisis. How does the medical establishment go hog wild into prescribing narcotics for pain without regard to the potential for addiction? Boggles the mind. I have said before that there is a war going on against red states and rural populations. The left has done everything they can to kill manufacturing, and kill coal mining. They are trying to kill petroleum now as well. They did everything they could to kill tobacco too. All primary industries of red states are under attack. And the populations have been attacked by opioid addiction via painkillers. I am not a conspiracy nut. The only explanation for such spectacularly bad decisions is that it is deliberate. No doctor with any sense would prescribe narcotics in such a manner, they know the potential for addiction and abuse. And the AMA is pretty hard left as we have seen with their position on guns in the home.

Even the VA won't prescribe benzodiazepines to soldiers with PTSD due to abuse potential and the fact that many self medicate with alcohol first. But they do work and if you are disciplined in the dosage and don't abuse them they can be a big help. Instead, veterans with PTSD SSRI's which are only anecdotally indicated for anxiety. Anti-depressants can reduce depression induced anxiety by treating the underlying depression, but they do not work for anxiety on their own.

If ADHD is an organic condition (not environmental) then it's presence in the population should be relatively constant and not increasing sharply for no reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
As for the opioid crisis. How does the medical establishment go hog wild into prescribing narcotics for pain without regard to the potential for addiction? Boggles the mind.

Not really. Thirty(ish) years ago, about when this "crisis" started, pain was labeled the "5th vital sign" - No less important than a blood pressure or pulse. ER providers were sued for not addressing and treating it.

Thus, demand for narcotics went up, prescriptions for it necessarily increased, manufacturing of it increased, and surprise surprise many end users (the same people who demanded the drugs) became addicted. It's a real shocker.

I, for one, get a bit tired of providers and manufacturers being demonized for this problem when nearly zero blame goes to the end users who began, and perpetuate, the problem. Providers being required to treat pain and manufacturers making a product in high demand are NOT the bad guys. If fingers need to be pointed, point them squarely at the end user.

We don't blame Jim Beam and bartenders for all the alcoholics out there, nor should we blame Purdue or Dr. Everythingllbealright (little plug for Prince there ).

Frankly, we have raised a nation of pussies who don't get that pain is a part of life and that they need to learn to deal with it. I've seen grown men, who desperately need to grow a sack, screaming and crying in agony over a poke from a 25g needle for fuck's sake.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Gustofer,

There is plenty of blame to go around. Purdue Pharma, however marketed Oxycodone as nonaddicting and spent millions promoting it. It is not all on the illiterate redneck with back issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
As for the opioid crisis. How does the medical establishment go hog wild into prescribing narcotics for pain without regard to the potential for addiction? Boggles the mind.

They've been doing that for years. I was overprescribed morphine years ago when in the hospital, got it several times a day for months and ended up addicted.

I went cold turkey against the advice of my doctor and got off of it, never to return.

And with respect to over prescribing, my disowned nephew has a wife that's addicted to pain killers. Takes em like candy and is whacked out most of the time.

When they cracked down on it here, they found she had several different doctors she went to and they all were prescribing painkillers. That came to a screeching halt after the crack down and she turned to buying it on the street. I'm amazed she's still alive

Something I find particularly disgusting is the name of a so called Chief Impact Officer, Simone Biles. I wonder if she ever really got psychotherapy which is clearly what she needed. It is called sleazy marketing to a certain age group as well as female athletes.