SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    FBI seizes 800+ safety deposit boxes in constitutionally dubious raid. Honest citizens: to get your stuff, come forward and prove your innocence!
Page 1 2 3 4 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
FBI seizes 800+ safety deposit boxes in constitutionally dubious raid. Honest citizens: to get your stuff, come forward and prove your innocence! Login/Join 
Member
Picture of SIGguy229
posted Hide Post
The IRS = THE IRS = THEIRS
 
Posts: 1737 | Location: South.....Carolina | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
Updated reporting suggests that (prepare to be shocked) the FBI was up to no good!

https://ij.org/press-release/l...-owners-with-crimes/

quote:

LOS ANGELES—When the FBI asked a federal magistrate judge for a warrant to seize the property of US Private Vaults, it concealed critical details about its plan for the hundreds of individually rented security deposit boxes at the Beverly Hills business. Evidence brought to light in a federal class action lawsuit filed by the Institute for Justice (IJ) reveals the previously hidden history of the federal government’s raid, which deliberately violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of people throughout Southern California.

“The government has a duty to be honest with the court when it applies for a warrant under the Fourth Amendment,” said IJ Senior Attorney Robert Frommer. “But the FBI lied about its intentions in claiming to only be interested in the property of the business, and not the box holders. Ultimately, the lure of civil forfeiture turned these federal cops into robbers.”

For almost five years the government investigated individual customers of US Private Vaults, using the business as (in the words of one agent) a “honey pot” to target customers. However, the government shifted its focus to the company after deciding its initial approach was not “effective.”

As part of that shift in focus, in summer 2020 the government started planning to apply for search and seizure warrants against US Private Vaults and its owners. One of those warrants was to seize US Private Vaults’ business property, including the “nest,” a relatively worthless superstructure that held renters’ safe-deposit boxes. When the FBI applied for that seizure warrant in March 2021, its affidavit did not allege that the customers had done anything wrong, and both the FBI and the United States Attorney’s Office swore that agents would merely “inventory” box renters’ property. They promised the warrant would “authorize the seizure of the nests of the boxes themselves, not their contents,” and that agents would pry “no further than necessary to determine ownership.”

But the FBI and the United States Attorney’s Office failed to tell the judge that, months before, they and other government agencies had already formulated plans to use civil forfeiture against customers’ property. In fact, before the federal magistrate had even seen the warrant application, FBI officials had concluded they would use civil forfeiture against every asset in every customer’s box that was worth over $5,000.

Why $5,000? Because $5,000 is the FBI’s minimum monetary threshold for forfeitures. In other words, the government testified that it planned to seize and administratively forfeit every box renter’s property so long as it thought it would make money on the deal. It planned this despite not knowing who those renters were, what was in their boxes or if they had committed any crimes.

“The burden should always be on the government to prove wrongdoing before it can take somebody’s property. The government here just assumed that everything in the boxes worth more than $5,000 was somehow connected to crime,” said IJ Senior Attorney Robert Johnson. “That is a perfect example of how civil forfeiture takes the presumption of innocence and turns it on its head.”

When FBI officials marched into US Private Vaults in March 2021, they executed their plan. And to gather more evidence to support their forfeiture efforts, those same FBI officials ignored the seizure warrant’s command that it “does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.” Under the warrant, agents were only supposed to “inspect the contents of the boxes”—not to search for potential violations of law, but simply to “identify their owners in order to notify them so that they can claim their property.”

But despite its promises to the court, the FBI created custom forms that asked agents to look for information the government could use in pursuing forfeitures. One document, for instance, asked agents to “note things such as how the cash is bundled,” “if it has a strong odor,” or “if there appears to be drug residue.” Another instructed that cash over $5,000 should be sniffed by a “canine unit,” and, in fact, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service arranged for numerous drug dogs to be on site. The government agreed that it gathered this evidence because it “could be probative later on” in showing that the government could forfeit that money or other property.

Under the warrant’s terms, agents should have stopped when they encountered letters taped to the top of closed boxes that identified the box’s renter and beneficiaries. Yet invariably agents pored through each box, capturing photographic and video records of renters’ password lists, wills, personal notes and other sensitive documents. Now, the FBI and other agencies have copies of these records in their evidentiary databases, where renters’ private, personal information will remain for agents to access and analyze.

In May 2021, the government carried out its plan to commence administrative forfeiture proceedings against hundreds of boxes containing over $80 million in cash and tens of millions more in gold, silver, jewelry and other valuables.

That same month, IJ sued the government on behalf of several named box holders and a broader class of people who had identified themselves to the FBI seeking return of their property. They won an early victory when the court barred some of the government’s forfeiture proceedings, holding that the government’s failure to tell renters what crime it thought they committed violated due process. But due to the government’s shocking violation of Fourth Amendment rights, the FBI and other agencies continue to hold onto the detailed records of hundreds of peoples’ boxes.

“For months the FBI held onto our precious metals and treated me and my husband like criminals. If we had not fought back, we could have lost a significant part of our life savings forever,” said Jeni Pearsons, one of the plaintiffs in the suit. “Our lawsuit can’t turn the clock back and keep our rights from being violated, but we want to make sure the government never does this to anyone else and doesn’t hold onto the records and photos of our private possessions.”

The Institute for Justice is a national non-profit law firm dedicated to upholding individual rights. IJ is joined in this case by local counsel Nilay Vora and Jeff Atteberry of The Vora Law Firm, P.C.


________________________



www.zykansafe.com
 
Posts: 15965 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gone but Together Again.
Dad & Uncle
Picture of h2oys
posted Hide Post
^^^Incredible.
 
Posts: 3866 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: November 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
Picture of darthfuster
posted Hide Post
Not so incredible anymore.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 30057 | Location: Norris Lake, TN | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
Picture of Ryanp225
posted Hide Post
I just bury my shit nowadays. Then I make a cryptic map laden with secret booby traps leading back to the stash.
 
Posts: 10851 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Optimistic Cynic
Picture of architect
posted Hide Post
Who will be surprised when the major contributors to a certain political party get their items returned without charges or an investigation, while the less politically influential are run through the meat grinder, and lose their wealth entirely? Maybe there will be an option to purchase a get out of jail free card, and this is nothing more than a fund raising effort for the upcoming re-election campaign?
 
Posts: 6978 | Location: NoVA | Registered: July 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Void Where Prohibited
Picture of WaterburyBob
posted Hide Post
I wanted some pi, but then decided it was irrational.



"If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards
 
Posts: 16747 | Location: Under the Boot of Tyranny in Connectistan | Registered: February 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of RichardC
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
I wanted some pi, but then decided it was irrational.


Um, WaterburyBob, I thik you're in the wrong pew.


____________________



 
Posts: 16338 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unapologetic Old
School Curmudgeon
Picture of Lord Vaalic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ryanp225:
I just bury my shit nowadays. Then I make a cryptic map laden with secret booby traps leading back to the stash.


Your stash could be the next Oak Island show in 100 years




Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day
 
Posts: 10783 | Location: TN | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
quote:
Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
I wanted some pi, but then decided it was irrational.


Um, WaterburyBob, I thik you're in the wrong pew.


He’s in that other thread wondering where his post went. Big Grin

The FBI stealing people’s safe deposit boxes should really make people think.

The government has a lot of rules in place that people can get tripped up on. Gift taxes being one of them. I see you have a Rolex Daytona in your safe deposit box. You say it was a gift from your father? Why didn’t you file a gift tax return?
 
Posts: 12125 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Partial dichotomy
posted Hide Post
^^^ Big Grin




SIGforum: For all your needs!
Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>
 
Posts: 39542 | Location: SC Lowcountry/Cape Cod | Registered: November 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Watch Nevada Highway Patrol Officers Seize a Veteran's Life Savings Through Asset Forfeiture

The officers admit there's nothing illegal about carrying large amounts of cash, then take almost $90,000 from him anyway.

https://reason.com/2021/12/01/...gh-asset-forfeiture/

"I just want to tell you Officer Brown, you're taking money out of my kids' mouths," Stephen Lara said as Nevada Highway Patrol officers confiscated his life savings.

Police pulled over Lara near Reno on February 19. After he consented to a search, the officers discovered nearly $90,000 in bundled cash in Lara's backpack. Although Lara was not arrested or charged with a crime, the officers claimed the money was drug trafficking proceeds and seized through a practice known as civil asset forfeiture.

The government has since agreed to return Lara's money, and on Tuesday, the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning public interest law firm, released body camera footage of the February 19 traffic stop, calling it a "rare glimpse into an abuse of power that thousands of innocent Americans experience each year."



The Washington Post first reported in September on Lara's case after the Institute for Justice filed a lawsuit on Lara's behalf against the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), where his money had been sitting for more than six months since that traffic stop.

"I left there confused. I left there angry," Lara told the Post. "And I could not believe that I had just been literally robbed on the side of the road by people with badges and guns."

A Nevada Highway Patrol stopped Lara over near Reno for following too close to a semi-truck and traveling under the speed limit. Lara, a Marine combat veteran, was driving from Texas to California to visit his two daughters for the weekend, he said.

After asking Lara several questions about his background, the officer almost sheepishly explained that he was also doing drug interdiction work and asked Lara if he had any guns, drugs, or cash in his car.

Lara admitted he had cash. A lot of it.

"I don't trust banks, so I keep my own money," Lara responded when asked why. He then gave the officer permission to search his car.

On paper, Lara fit the profile of a trafficker. He was driving a rental car for a short-turnaround, long-distance trip with a huge amount of cash, $87,000 in fact. Civil asset forfeiture laws allow police to seize property suspected of being connected to criminal activity without charging the owner with a crime. Law enforcement groups say civil forfeiture is vital for drug interdiction because it allows them to target traffickers' illicit proceeds.

But there's also nothing illegal about traveling domestically with large amounts of cash, a fact the officer acknowledges.

"So, as you know, right—I'm a vet, he's a vet, you're a vet—it's not illegal to carry currency or have currency," the officer says. "It does make us ask questions about why someone has $100,000. I can understand why someone doesn't trust banks in this day and age."

"I have nothing to hide from you," Lara responded. In fact, he had years of bank receipts documenting cash withdrawals.

With no probable cause to seize the cash, a Nevada Highway Patrol sergeant who arrived on the scene ordered a drug-sniffing dog to be brought in. The dog alerted on the cash, and the officers announced that they would be seizing it as probable drug proceeds.

Civil liberties organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union and the Institute for Justice say that cases like Lara's show how police use civil forfeiture to seize property on flimsy suspicions. The owners, who are never charged with a crime, then bear the burden of going to court to prove their innocence, or rather the innocence of their property, to be precise.

"Carrying around cash is not a crime," Wesley Hottot, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice, said in a press release. "Stephen did nothing wrong. He isn't charged with any crime and the government isn't even willing to defend this seizure in court. Innocent people shouldn't lose their property like this.

Around 35 states have passed some form of asset forfeiture reform over the past decade based on these concerns. Four states—Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, and Maine—have abolished civil forfeiture entirely and now require a conviction before property can be forfeited.

The reason Lara sued the DEA is because of a wrinkle in forfeiture laws. The DEA works with state and local police on drug interdiction efforts, and federal law enforcement can "adopt" forfeiture cases from them, moving the cases to federal court. In return, the local police department gets a cut of the forfeiture proceeds, up to 80 percent.

While the Nevada Highway Patrol officers were debating what to do with Lara's cash, one of them was on the phone with a DEA agent.

Opponents of asset forfeiture say such adoptions are a loophole that allows state and local police to sidestep stricter state laws and requirements for civil forfeiture. The Institute for Justice estimates that the Nevada Highway Patrol stood to gain $70,000 from the federal forfeiture of Lara's cash.

Former Attorney General Eric Holder restricted when federal law enforcement could adopt local forfeiture cases in 2015, but in 2017, then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions rescinded those rules.

After about an hour and a half after Lara was first pulled over, the officers left him on the side of the road with a receipt of seizure and a number for a DEA agent.

"That money I have in my jacket is only a few dollars," Lara told them. "I have no money to pay for my kids' meals, my hotel, or even to get that car back to Texas."

The Institute for Justice says Lara had to get his brother to wire him money so he could continue his trip.

It was only after Lara sued the DEA for blowing its deadline to either give him his cash back or file a forfeiture case against it in federal court, and only after The Washington Post post reported on his case, that the government agreed to return his money. Lara is still pursuing lawsuits against the DEA and the Nevada Highway Patrol.

"I find it even more concerning that if this could happen to me, as a combat veteran who served overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan, this could happen to anybody," Lara says in the Institute for Justice video.

The Nevada Highway Patrol did not immediately return a request for comment.


_________________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain
 
Posts: 13504 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
Picture of Oat_Action_Man
posted Hide Post
The Youtube channel Lehto's Law has had some good coverage of the FBI box seizure story from the first reporting of it to this new update.

I'm pretty sure he's also covered the story about the guy who got his money seized while doing nothing wrong.


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 19837 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of kg5388
posted Hide Post
Memphis Bought up or used imminent domain for The Charjean buyout area to take a bunch of houses around the airport. One guy would not move as he lived there most of his life and the airport noise didn’t bother him. The city threatened several times and once a bunch of Militia groups came in and helped prevent the bulldozing of his house. The city backed off and let things die down and one day while he was at work they moved everything out of his house and tore it down.
He had a lot of gold and coins that they seized and wanted to know how he acquired it all. He told them it was none of their business.
I never did hear if he got all his stuff back.

Never trust the government as they will twist everything to their advantage. They did not know which boxes were used for criminal activities so take them all and either the good citizens will claim their property but those that don’t try to claim will be investigated or the government will just keep their stuff and put it in the coffers


_____________________
"We're going to die. Some people are scared of dying. Never be afraid to die. Because you're born to die," Walter Breuning 114 years old
 
Posts: 1848 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: January 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
posted Hide Post
^Amateurs. Mayor Daley of Chicago once ordered the overnight destruction of an entire airport. He had a bunch of excavators brought in unannounced on a Sunday night and they carved giant Xs across and down the entire concrete runway.
 
Posts: 12125 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
^Amateurs. Mayor Daley of Chicago once ordered the overnight destruction of an entire airport. He had a bunch of excavators brought in unannounced on a Sunday night and they carved giant Xs across and down the entire concrete runway.


Merril C. Meigs field, I remember seeing that happen on the news. To prevent a 9/11 style attack on Chicago he said......
 
Posts: 980 | Location: Midwest | Registered: April 13, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by M1Garandy:
Merril C. Meigs field, I remember seeing that happen on the news. To prevent a 9/11 style attack on Chicago he said......


It made a heck of a moderate density development.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 32416 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    FBI seizes 800+ safety deposit boxes in constitutionally dubious raid. Honest citizens: to get your stuff, come forward and prove your innocence!

© SIGforum 2024