When you rob Peter to pay Paul, eventually you get a sore Peter............

As long as governments have the power to tax there will always be some form of socialism. I'm not sure how to entirely get away from it but taxation is a destructive force that always leads to many evils.

I'd say we're at about the 10 or 11 o'clock position on the Alexander Tytler cycle of the lifespan of democracy.

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:


I'd say we're at about the 10 or 11 o'clock position on the Alexander Tytler cycle of the lifespan of democracy.

I think that is about correct.

I had a chat with a student before class yesterday, a first generation immigrant from the Ukraine, who is quite capable academically. She is quite concerned the US is running full speed ahead into socialism which will result in communism, pointing to various markers in gov't and society. She probably understands the realities of communism better than most. I had to agree with her.

I wonder, what portion of the people in the US today are Peter, what portion are are Paul? And what that ratio be in ten years?

My name is Peter. I work hard and have my own company. I also have a great tax accountant who ensures there is very little to give to Paul as he is a lazy shit.

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Originally posted by Cassandra:
I wonder, what portion of the people in the US today are Peter, what portion are are Paul? And what that ratio be in ten years?

My name is Peter. I work hard and have my own company. I also have a great tax accountant who ensures there is very little to give to Paul as he is a lazy shit.

If Socialism is allowed to fester, eventually we all become Paul.

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Unfortunately, as viable as this concept may sound, even moderate socialistic national policies result in moderate deterioration of the system. It’s not unlike being “just a little” addicted to heroin.

It may be argued that, “That’s different. With heroin, the addict will always end up wanting more and he’ll become even more dependent.” Exactly so – and that’s unquestionably true for socialism as well. Once the concept of “free stuff” is part of a nation’s governing system, the desire for more free stuff will inexorably rise.

This truth is on full display whenever there's an episode of upheaval perpetrated by the domestic terror group known as Black Lives Matter. Here they are - a full regiment of people who have been given EVERYTHING their entire lives - food, housing, medical care, and even spending money - and instead of being the most grateful Americans in the country; instead of being humble and wanting to express their gratitude, they instead want to destroy property and kill the very people who are providing for them.

Socialism is an utter disaster.

It can be tedious, but studying archives at the Library of Congress online (loc.org) can be very enlightening. I think of this now because I once studied the years of FDR's reign, and was intrigued to read what Republicans said in response to FDR's social programs when they were suggested. The Republicans of that era were very well read, and understood human nature quite well. They predicted the future with great accuracy! They predicted that a whole now class would come into existence - a "Welfare Class." They were scoffed at by both Democrats and the media at the time. But, here we are.

Its all the rage and quite vogue, being exemplified and taught under cirriculum at colleges and universities throughout America. We even pay to have our kids indoctrinated in it too. If not careful, American exceptionalism will end in our lifetimes...

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Originally posted by darthfuster:

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Originally posted by Cassandra:
I wonder, what portion of the people in the US today are Peter, what portion are are Paul? And what that ratio be in ten years?

My name is Peter. I work hard and have my own company. I also have a great tax accountant who ensures there is very little to give to Paul as he is a lazy shit.

If Socialism is allowed to fester, eventually we all become Paul.

I might suggest that Paul gets a significant chunk of public monies. Roughly 1/3 of the CA budget ($60B out of $180B) is for acknowledged welfare. And I would bet a fair portion of the remaining 2/3 is spent on defacto welfare in the form of crony capitalism and the bureaucratic gravy-train.

The top 50% income earners pay around 97% of federal income taxes, meaning the bottom 50% income earners pay 3% of the taxes. (The top 1% of the income earners pay roughly 40% of the federal income taxes.)

Also darth, I never thought of it that way, we will all become Paul, as we will receive all of our sustenance through the graces of the gov't. But we will also all become Peter, because the gov't, which produces nothing of itself, will first take everything we have, take their cut off the top, and give us the leftovers.

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Also darth, I never thought of it that way, we will all become Paul, as we will receive all of our sustenance through the graces of the gov't. But we will also all become Peter, because the gov't, which produces nothing of itself, will first take everything we have, take their cut off the top, and give us the leftovers.

That may be true... but that's why Peter goes Galt.

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by darthfuster:

quote:

Originally posted by Cassandra:
I wonder, what portion of the people in the US today are Peter, what portion are are Paul? And what that ratio be in ten years?

My name is Peter. I work hard and have my own company. I also have a great tax accountant who ensures there is very little to give to Paul as he is a lazy shit.

If Socialism is allowed to fester, eventually we all become Paul.

I might suggest that Paul gets a significant chunk of public monies. Roughly 1/3 of the CA budget ($60B out of $180B) is for acknowledged welfare. And I would bet a fair portion of the remaining 2/3 is spent on defacto welfare in the form of crony capitalism and the bureaucratic gravy-train.

The top 50% income earners pay around 97% of federal income taxes, meaning the bottom 50% income earners pay 3% of the taxes. (The top 1% of the income earners pay roughly 40% of the federal income taxes.)

Also darth, I never thought of it that way, we will all become Paul, as we will receive all of our sustenance through the graces of the gov't. But we will also all become Peter, because the gov't, which produces nothing of itself, will first take everything we have, take their cut off the top, and give us the leftovers.

I think the overwhelming majority of us start/started as Peter . But from the very instant Socialism begins even in it nascent and seemingly benign forms, it robs mankind of his will to produce. So I think that given enough time all of us gradually become Paul......or more accurately put, Toby.

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Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
The reason socialism is here to stay is because it promises fairness, and that concept will always be emotionally compelling.

This, plus the fact that it's hard to campaign against Santa Clause. One side talks of freedom and personal responsibility. The other talks of free candy. Guess who wins.

free candy?

Surprise: California's Single-Payer Healthcare Plan Would Cost $400 Billion...Per Year

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/...ionper-year-n2330456

But.... it's free!

Collectivism is a ratchet. It only gets tighter.

People don't easily give up their free shit. It takes a cataclysm to move away from more government control and redistribution.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jhe888,

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Originally posted by jhe888:
collectivism is a ratchet. It only gets tighter.

People don't easily give up their free shit. It takes a cataclysm to move away from more government control and redistribution.

That needs a repeat.

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Originally posted by XinTX:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
The reason socialism is here to stay is because it promises fairness, and that concept will always be emotionally compelling.

This, plus the fact that it's hard to campaign against Santa Clause. One side talks of freedom and personal responsibility. The other talks of free candy. Guess who wins.

I might suggest socialism promotes totalitarianism under the guise of fairness.

It always sounds so great, and it always ends in gulags and starvation.

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Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by slosig:

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
We are not leaving CA (until around the end of the year, which can't come too soon.)

You lucky bum! I'm jealous. We're likely stuck for at least the five years until the youngest finishes high school.

Y'all know that Karma is in effect.

I know about your incredibly generous karma. I have a couple of P228s (one on my permit & on my hip right now) and would feel uncomfortable accepting such generosity when others who don't have a P228 could benefit. The bigger issue though is that besides the wife & kids loving it here in SLO (and to be honest, I do too other than the insane state politics), the kids are in a great school. Once the kids finish school and head off to college, then it is just a knock-down drag out with the much better looking half instead of three against one.

An alternative view...

One should not worry about socialism. It always fails as an unsustainable premise. Sadly it is a stinking mess till it fails.

Sometimes it fails quietly and fades away. Other times it fails loudly with much terror and anguish.

Peter eventually shoots Paul and leaves him rotting in the streets.

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Originally posted by EasyFire:
An alternative view...

One should not worry about socialism. It always fails as an unsustainable premise. Sadly it is a stinking mess till it fails.

Sometimes it fails quietly and fades away. Other times it fails loudly with much terror and anguish.

Peter eventually shoots Paul and leaves him rotting in the streets.

Yes, socialism will always fail. But the process is very painful and ugly.