Page 1 2
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Townhall.com Thomas J. Farnan February 20, 2018 McCarthyism describes an event in American history where a Senator claimed to have in his briefcase evidence that high-ranking government officials were colluding with Russia. Lives were destroyed based solely on the accusation. Finally, when people had had enough, the attorney representing the U.S. Army turned to the Senator and said, “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?” That ended it. The present Russian investigation hit its “have you no sense of decency” moment last week when Robert Mueller indicted 13 Russians for defrauding America. By all appearances, they are the sort of unsophisticated internet trolls who, with clunky English, implore social media users to do stupid things. There is no evidence that they influenced anything. A significant portion of the objectionable activity, including the bulk of the Facebook ads and the attempt to organize a Trump rally, happened after the election. The ubiquitous “Tasty – Pull Apart Garlic Rolls!” Facebook post has had more likes, shares and smiley faces than anything Russia did to affect the election. The indictment is killing a fly with a sledge hammer. President Obama knew about the trolling in 2014 and that was his judgment, too. He told Putin to cut it out. It was not worth bothering international relations over. As Commander-in-Chief, he was permitted to assess Russian social media activity and roll his eyes. Because that’s how America works. Except in the age of Trump. If you think it strange that President Trump controls all armies in the field, the diplomatic corps, the intelligence agencies, but an unelected Justice Department appointee is setting American foreign policy over Russian internet trolling, here’s how that happened. In 2016, the FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation into Russian meddling in the presidential election. Attorney General Sessions recused himself because people told him he may be a spy and he said, sure, why not. The second in command, Rod Rosenstein, advised the president to fire the FBI director. Then, when people got mad at him for that, he appointed a special counsel, Robert Mueller, to investigate the president because the firing suggested that he was a Russian spy. Confused yet? It gets better. There was no crime to investigate because counterintelligence investigations are not criminal proceedings. The special counsel statute requires the referral to identify a crime. Rosenstein got by this legal requirement by ignoring it. Mueller was appointed not to investigate a specified crime but to stroke his chin and look into Russian interference in the election. During the special counsel’s tenure, the House and the Senate uncovered oodles of evidence that foreign nationals were providing Hillary Clinton with opposition research meant to influence the election. A British subject, Christopher Steele, coordinated with seedy Russians to produce a salacious and unverified dossier that was leaked to the press and caused tremendous disruption in the Trump campaign. Hillary Clinton paid millions of dollars for it. That’s some pretty effective Russian meddling, right there. The special counsel, though, ignored it and instead indicted the hapless internet trolls. The indictment does say, “Defendants’ operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaging Hillary Clinton.” One does not have to be too great a cynic to surmise that the purpose of this indictment was to make that out-of-context statement. Trump’s political opponents needed some official looking document to bolster their collapsing narrative, and that quote has supplied a weekend’s worth of headlines. The whole thing has the look and feel of a rank political gesture disguised as law enforcement. The purpose of the indictment certainly is not to bring criminals to justice. The accused are in Russia, laughing – and are not going to come to the United States to defend themselves. Too bad the Russians will not extradite themselves to face prosecution because if they did, they would have some pretty good defenses. They could say that nothing prevents them from opening Facebook and Instagram pages under false names to engage in political activity. I am on Facebook, and 20% of my “Friends” (I would guess) are using some combination of their first and middle name, or mother’s maiden name, or in one case, first name and favorite vegetable, to make even political statements. They could point out that foreign nationals try to influence American elections all the time, but they were singled out for exercising their right to free speech, guaranteed even to foreigners by the U.S. Constitution. They could introduce evidence that millions of illegals in American – yes, even the Dreamers –were organizing, marching, and otherwise helping Hillary Clinton in the last election. They could go deep on the Clinton Foundation, and show that its foreign donors were paying money that one way or other impacted the election. They could point to the dossier and ask why they were treated differently than its author and contributors, who were also foreign nationals. Americans elected Trump because they are convinced that Washington has so lost touch with reality that it needed to be led by a reality show host. This Russian collusion stuff has Washington in a tizzy, but to everyone else it has always been a fantasy. This indictment confirms that. Have you no sense of decency, Robert Mueller, at long last? Please stop issuing unrelated and un-prosecutable indictments and just admit that you have nothing in the briefcase. Link Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | ||
|
| Knows too little about too much  |
Well, Mueller produced indictments didn't he? See, we told you!!! This is a shit-storm of a waste by the DOJ. Just fire the bastard and let the chips fall where they may. Prosecute the Obama-Hilary team and let's get back to America. RMD TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…” Remember: After the first one, the rest are free. | |||
|
Legalize the Constitution |
Rush pointed out that the indictments came on a Friday afternoon, and in the wake of the Florida school murders. Games people play. Good editorial, Jallen _______________________________________________________ despite them | |||
|
Baroque Bloke |
The only meddling in the 2016 presidential election that might’ve actually changed the outcome: The DNC’s efforts to derail Bernie Sanders’ campaign. Candidate Trump considered Bernie to be a more dangerous opponent than low-energy HRC. Serious about crackers | |||
|
| wishing we were congress |
Mueller has come up w: 1. Charges against Manafort and Gates for activity before the campaign and having nothing to do w the campaign 2. Indictment & plea deal against Flynn for lying in an FBI interview about things that were perfectly legal 3. Indictment & plea deal against Papadopolous for lying in an FBI interview about things that were perfectly legal 4. A FISA warrant against Carter Page. A warrant based on lies that Carter Page was a Russian foreign agent. No known indictment of Carter Page 5. Indictment of 13 Russians for using social networks to interfere w the 2016 election (for and against Donald Trump). 6. Indictment against a lawyer associated w Manafort for lying to an FBI agent about things unrelated to the 2016 election. What resources did Mueller waste ? 13 million dollars. 16 high powered prosecutors for 9 months Twenty or so full time FBI agents for 9 months | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Well, lying to FBI is not legal.(2,3,6). It doesn’t matter if what they asked about was perfectly legal. At least No. 6 is not an indictment, but an information, perhaps a distinction without much difference. No grand jury though. Flynn might have been the same. Special Counsel is not responsible for or involved in FISA warrant or dossier. (4) Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower  |
Sooner or later, ol' Bobby's gonna have to admit he doesn't have shit. | |||
|
| wishing we were congress |
I think the last extension of the FISA warrant against Page came after Mueller took over the investigation on 17 May 2017. We have no need for wasting tax dollars for the FBI to trick people in interviews. The point is, for all this expenditure of resources, Mueller has nothing regarding his special counsel task of investigating "the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts." and very little regarding Russian interference at all. | |||
|
| I kneel for my God, and I stand for my flag |
He'll ramp it up Sept - Nov and then make that announcement Jan 2019. | |||
|
Member |
I don't see this making it through the year into 2019. I think what the OIG Horowitz comes up with is going to turn this entire thing on it's ear. The people who are asking the questions now are going to be answering some questions before too long. I think the OIG report is scheduled to be released in mid March. "Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
I’m not trying to call you out or anything. You are doing a very admirable service ferreting out some very interesting information. Details are important, and this situation is confusing. One of these days it will be important to understanding to have the real details in mind. An information is different than an indictment, different implications, inferences. The FISA court process is separate from the Special Counsel, almost completely. You and I are paying close enough attention to not get tripped up too easily, but some of the gentle readers may be vulnerable to confusion and wrong conclusions. Some of the media are aiding and abetting the confusion, too. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
| Go ahead punk, make my day |
I'm thinking they want to keep it all frothy until after the mid-terms. D's need drum to beat. | |||
|
| wishing we were congress |
JALLEN, I don't have the smallest problem in being questioned or corrected. A good healthy dialog moves everyone towards a better understanding of what has happened. I fully agree this Russian collusion conspiracy is complex and very difficult to comprehend w all the players and moving pieces. Glenn Simpson and Christopher Steele never anticipated so much would become public knowledge. A question: Why do you think the FISA court process is separate from the special counsel? Mueller took over the investigation started by Comey. Once he did that, why wouldn't Mueller trigger any additional FISA warrant extensions regarding the Russia investigation ? The DoJ and FBI Dir (or Dep Dir) still have to approve the application. But I expect that Mueller (or someone under him) would have had to initiate the application. Hopefully soon the FISA applications will be released and we will get real information versus having to speculate. BTW, almost hate to bring this up, but the lawyer who is #6 above who was subject to a Mueller "information", he just happens to be the son-in-law of German Khan who is mentioned in the dossier. German Khan is a Russian billionaire. Khan is suing Fusion GPS and Buzzfeed. Hard to track all the lawsuits. | |||
|
| Member |
From what I have read we are over 10 million in cost so far, who know how much it will be when they get this witch hunt done, but the DNC, should be made to pay for it. "Hold my beer.....Watch this". | |||
|
| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
The DNC/ABC/NBC/CBS crowd have been beating that drum like a ferret on crack. They leave out the fact that the indictments didn't have a damn thing to do with DJT but I'm sure they will issue corrections real soon. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
FISC is a very specialized court of very limited jurisdiction. I suppose it is not impossible that Mueller could have some perceived need for the kind of intel one can only get from FISC, but given the instructions he has from DOJ, that seems most unlikely. FISC is for intel gathering, not evidence for criminal cases which will have to be prosecuted in district courts where sources and methods are more at risk of disclosure. Maybe NSA has in its data bases all these e-mails, texts, phone calls, etc. to be retrieved for criminal investigatory use. That’s scary. The bar to hop is very high, though. But who really knows? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
His Royal Hiney |
I'll self-identify as one of the confused pretty early on. There has been so much disinformation that I think it has sidelined a good number of people like myself. It's like the scene in the movie where the antagonist makes himself look like the protagonist and they're both saying to the third person, "I'm the good guy! Shoot him!" "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
|
Character, above all else |
I admit the same. Kudos to JALLEN, sdy and others for putting much of the confusing morass of legal information into layman's terms for the rest of us to begin understanding what's really happening. I look forward to reading the inputs each and every day. Thanks guys. "The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy." | |||
|
| Member |
Did he even lie though? The MSM likes to point out that he must have done something wrong otherwise he wouldn't have lied to, and pled guilty to lying to the FBI. Yet, didn't we find out McCabe altered the summary of the interview? It isn't recorded, it is just the word of McCabe and Strozk what was said vs. Flynn. Could it be he pled guilty because their is no way to fight this? “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
That may be the potential problem. There has been some indication that Flynn felt he couldn't fight it, financially. There was some exposure for his son. I have no idea about that. Flynn also had failed to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act until March, 2017. You can read the complete statement of offense to which Flynn agreed here. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024