I just returned from a small town in Nebraska where I visited my cousin, Mark, who is dying of cancer. He’s just 9 months older than I am. “We kinda grew up together, didn’t we,” he said as we hugged goodbye.

We both started smoking cigarettes as punk kids at 14 or 15, but I quit by the time I was 30 or so and he never did. It was easy to blame his myriad health problems on the cigarettes, and most of the family (including his sisters) did.

Yeah, he’s got lung cancer, but the thing is, the spots are small. When the cancer was discovered, he already had spots on his brain, and in lymph glands. Previously, before this cancer was discovered he had already beaten bladder cancer.

I left Nebraska when I was 19 and from that point on, we rarely saw each other except at weddings and funerals. When I was back there, it always seemed like the time was brief and it was difficult to spend enough time with immediate family. I just didn’t take the time to stay close.

Mark is a Vietnam vet. He was in the Navy and I always assumed he was cruising around the Gulf of Tonkin on a ship, relatively safe from the war in-country. I was wrong. When I found out he was dying last fall, I began to telephone him. We talk at least monthly now. He was trained as a helicopter mechanic. He operated out of Da Nang a lot, but most often he out in indian country at helicopter crash sites. He evaluated the wreckage and made a determination whether or not the aircraft was salvageable. If so, he arranged for it to be lifted out , if not, he blew it up.

He was exposed to Agent Orange on several occasions.

Mark himself, does not downplay the consequences of smoking all his life. In fact, he has never even tried to get compensation for his health problems. Too many things (I haven’t even brought up his heart) showing up in too many places on a guy who has been seeing doctors at the V.A.

I don’t know what my point is. I just talked to him again and I’m feeling melancholy and like the country he served doesn’t adequately appreciate the many vets impacted by the use of A.O.

Maybe another point is: Do you have family that meant a lot to you growing up that maybe you’ve drifted away from? Pick up the phone.

If the spots on his lungs were small when diagnosed then I would agree with you that he had the other before. Quite often it works that way. Often spots show up on lungs secondary to being somewhere else. I'm not a doc, but I found that out recently with my Dad.

Sorry for the pain, his and yours.

Tom,
I am sorry for what your cousin is going through. I will say a prayer for him.

Thank you for your words about family. I haven't kept in touch with a couple of family members and will reach out to them.

PC

Thanks, Paul

My dad was an Air Force mechanic in S. Vietnam & the Philippines from late 1967 - early 1969. I think mostly KC-130s. He's always been in good health, other than being a little overweight. Never smoked, drank, etc... He was diagnosed with prostate cancer quite a while ago, maybe 10+ years. He had his prostate removed and has been fine ever since. He is convinced that it was caused by AO. He says he even knows exactly when he was exposed.

Something about it being on the outside of a plane, and I think he said they were responsible for cleaning it off. I know lots of people get prostate cancer every year, so I am not convinced that the two are related.

AO was some nasty stuff, and cancer sucks. Dad will be turning 71 this year, and at times I wish I didn't live 2,000 miles away, but we do talk several times per month. Sorry for your cousins condition.

Prostate cancer and diabetes are both presumptive from Agent Orange, as well as many other cancers and damage. I urge you to contact the VA about these issues before it is too late. I am presently rated 70% disabled by the VA due to exposure to Agent Orange. I turn 71 on 02/17.

Prayers for your cousin.

I place a lot of value on genetics.

My father was a heavy smoker and drinker. He lived until he was 55ish

My youngest brother drinks and smokes at least as much as our father and he's in his early 50s. From what I understand about his health, my brother has not displayed the same health issues (full body cancer as our father said he had) with relation to the same age.

Only difference between my father and my brother is the addition of my mother's genetics inherited by my brother.

My stepdad was at Korat AB 67-68 as an AGE mechanic.

He worked on the spray equipment that was loaded on the spraying aircraft.

While he was there he was admitted to the hospital for over a month with bleeding from his kidneys and bloody stools.

They blamed it on a bleeding ulcer.

He had trouble with the ulcer and I watched him drink Malox from a bottle like people do with those "5 hour" energy drinks. Small blue bottles, several times a day some days.

He was "diagnosed" with "nervous stomach", in 1973.

He retired in February 1975.

He died March 1978, 30 days after his 40th birthday.
(I had been "estranged" for several years, and had no contact with my mother or stepfather by this time, and was active duty in the USAF. I passed a Blue Staff Car 20 miles away from Eglin, going the other way, and turned to my wife and said "Fred is dead." I just knew.)

My little brother was born April 1973, with "imperforate anus" and underwent a number of surgeries until he was 7 years old.
He had a colostomy for those first seven years, with several "reversals" that failed, "constructive surgery" and finally a reversal that was his last surgery.

I am pretty certain that AO, was the cause.

I will not go into all the issues with VA and whatnot.

My mother lost my father as a result of a dragster crash, and my last stepfather was her world. 11 years was not long enough, and she was a wreck the rest of her life. (20 years)

TMats, you have my heartfelt condolences on what you and your cousin are dealing with.

I have a cousin that was like my brother when we were young. We were inseparable.
It's a "brother love".

And I second the "getting in touch".

I was "silent" with family and friends for 40 years, due to the past.

Ironically, meeting people on this forum in person resulted in my desire and actions to reconnect with all I can.

I am so grateful that I did.

That said, a lot of things I say may seem a bit "touchy freely" at times, especially, "things of the heart", but I believe they should and must be said.

Each person that reads will respond appropriately to them.

And I hope your post prompts others to reach out to those "disconnected".

I have decided the potential "pain" of opening a wound, or touching a scar, far outweighs the burden of regret, for not reaching out and contacting folks.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
Prostate cancer and diabetes are both presumptive from Agent Orange, as well as many other cancers and damage. I urge you to contact the VA about these issues before it is too late. I am presently rated 70% disabled by the VA due to exposure to Agent Orange. I turn 71 on 02/17.

Along with prostrate cancer and diabetes coronary artery disease is also presumptive with exposure to AO. I am 60% due to exposure to AO. I'll be 70 in Oct.

Agent Orange is known better in this country as 2,4,5-T, a common defoliant and part the same herbicide family of what used to be the single most commonly used herbicide in the nation, and in the world: 2,4,5-D.

Many, myself included, have had may years of exposure; every ag pilot has been; I grew up with it, and have been covered in it on many occasions.

Those exposed to "agent orange" had brief exposure. Most who have been born in this country over the past 75 years or so have been eating food treated with the chemicals for their entire lives. Various forms of 2,4,5-D continue to be used on everything from lawns to crops to ornamentals; it's a broad-leaf herbicide and in the case of 2,4,5-T, a defoliant (used previously on cotton, trees, and all kinds of other purposes).

I mixed it, stored it, rinsed it, diluted it, treated with it, and sprayed it by hand, from aircraft, and mechanically with brushes and equipment since my teen years. I know a lot of people who have worked with these chemicals most of their lives.

We all need something to blame, but if most had any inkling of the exposure they've had for decades, while stateside, to the same chemicals, how surprised they might be.

Guppy, my degree is in Renewable Natural Resources, with a major in Rangeland Management. The range program is responsible for noxious weed management and the use of herbicides. I am aware that 2,4,5-T is the chemical agent in AO. That chemical, AFAIK, is still in use elsewhere in the world and is a safe and effective herbicide. The problem with AO is not the herbicide itself, but the fact that it was contaminated with dioxin.

BTW, are you sure you’re not referring to 2,4-D, rather than “2,4,5-D?”

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I have a cousin that was like my brother when we were young. We were inseparable.
It's a "brother love".

I couldn’t agree more. So much lost time.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
The problem with AO is not the herbicide itself, but the fact that it was contaminated with dioxin.

I'm well aware, as a licensed professional who's dealt with it for many years, but the truth is that these chemicals have been used by and for tens of millions of people who didn't experience these results...even after decades of exposure...yet those who have had brief exposure took home the malady of the moment...every extended combat action has them...

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
BTW, are you sure you’re not referring to 2,4-D, rather than “2,4,5-D?”

You're right...should have been 2,4-D. Which comes in numerous forms. Doing several things at once at the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
The problem with AO is not the herbicide itself, but the fact that it was contaminated with dioxin.

I'm well aware, as a licensed professional who's dealt with it for many years, but the truth is that these chemicals have been used by and for tens of millions of people who didn't experience these results...even after decades of exposure...yet those who have had brief exposure took home the malady of the moment...every extended combat action has them...

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
BTW, are you sure you’re not referring to 2,4-D, rather than “2,4,5-D?”

You're right...should have been 2,4-D. Which comes in numerous forms. Doing several things at once at the moment.

So, if I'm not mistaken, you're saying that exposure to the dioxin in AO is not an issue?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
The problem with AO is not the herbicide itself, but the fact that it was contaminated with dioxin.

I'm well aware, as a licensed professional who's dealt with it for many years, but the truth is that these chemicals have been used by and for tens of millions of people who didn't experience these results...even after decades of exposure...yet those who have had brief exposure took home the malady of the moment...every extended combat action has them...

I’m really not looking to turn my thread into a pissing match, but how can you have “dealt with it for many years,” when 2,4,5-T was only legal for use on rice since 1970, and outlawed completely in 1985? Again, as far as I know, while ubiquitous 2,4-D was part of the formulation for Agent Orange, it was the production of 2,4,5-T that led to dioxin contamination—and that’s a known carcinogen.

If you’d like a discussion on herbicides or dioxin, start a thread. Like I said, this is personal.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

I’m really not looking to turn my thread into a pissing match, but how can you have “dealt with it for many years,” when 2,4,5-T was only legal for use on rice since 1970, and outlawed completely in 1985? Again, as far as I know, while ubiquitous 2,4-D was part of the formulation for Agent Orange, it was the production of 2,4,5-T that led to dioxin contamination—and that’s a known carcinogen.

If you’d like a discussion on herbicides or dioxin, start a thread. Like I said, this is personal.

Since you asked, It's a small world, and both chemicals are still in use. While 2,4-D is a broad leaf herbicide, 2,4,5-T is a defoliant and has been run on everything from large swaths of jungle to cotton. It's still available and available if one knows where to look.

All the chemical formulations cited are considered carcinogens. As is just about anything today, depending on whom one asks. I've no interest in discussing the chemical formulas, so back to your thread. Apologies for touching base with a bit of truth...just happens to be an area with which I have experience (and a lot more direct contact than anyone who encountered it in Southeast Asia). Sorry to hear of your friend.

Back in the late 1980s I would read the newspaper obit. Over and over I would see these men around 40 years old who had passed away. I would repeatedly see US Army, US Army US Army. It was rare to see a US Air Force, Navy or Marine veteran of that group passing away. Very sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
Prostate cancer and diabetes are both presumptive from Agent Orange, as well as many other cancers and damage. I urge you to contact the VA about these issues before it is too late. I am presently rated 70% disabled by the VA due to exposure to Agent Orange. I turn 71 on 02/17.

I got a cousin who is retired. He's ended up getting prostrate cancer. They connected it to being exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam. He got back pay for all the years he's missed getting compensated. I guess that was the difference from medical benefits versus military pension.

I was in Vietnam in 69 and 70, stationed at Long Binh. I learned much later that the Long Binh/Bien Hoa area had been heavily sprayed with AO to kill the vegetation so that the bases could be built.

My daughter was born in 1979 with Spina Bifida. Children's Memorial in Chicago was considered one of the best treatment locations and she was transferred there soon after she was born. There were 4 babies in her room and 3 of the fathers were Vietnam vets. The 4th father never showed up, so who knows. My wife soon became an expert on SB and the relationship to the fathers being in Vietnam. The VA acknowledged the problem and my daughter gets a monthly payment. I was lucky that I had good healthcare insurance from my employer as my daughter had many surgeries over the years.

In 2006 I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and went back to Northwestern for surgery. The leading prostate cancer surgeon in the world is at NW and he and I have discussed the relationship between AO and prostate cancer.

It is my understanding, there are still USAF planes flying today that were used to spray in Vietnam. One of my HS classmates also had PC and he was an aircraft mechanic. They are also admitting that various stateside bases are contaminated. It was also used at the DMZ in Korea.

Any serviceman who served in SE Asia should have routine prostate screenings.