My wife (4'10") WON'T get past recoil/flash. She shoots decent, when she doesn't flinch, but she has it in her head that she can't, so she won't. She's fine with a 556 rifle, but not for HD. She won't touch my 9mm P320 or P226 because they are 'too big'. P938 scares her, unless it's 22LR & suppressed.
M&P22c in her nightstand loaded with mini-mags. It beats harsh words. (barely, she has a special command of 4-letter words in 2 languages.)

First, get her used to shooting and gun handling with the .22. Then take her to a range that has a wide range of rentals, and have her try a few.

And just because she's a small women, do NOT push tiny guns on her. The first centerfire gun I'd have her try is something in the Glock 19 size range, to see how it fits her hand and how she can control shooting it. Based on how that works, move to different sizes, and see if they fit better or worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Gibb:
I've helped many women learn to shoot, and I have found that each and every one is different. So I have taken the approach of getting as many different firearms as I can and letting them try them all.

I've seen athletic women lack the wrist strength to control the recoil of an airweight revolver, but shot a 1911 with no hesitation, I've seen my own wife shoot her P238 better than I can.

I recommend at a minimum bringing a heavy revolver, and airweight revolver, a .380, a 9mm, and yes, even a 1911 in 45. As many varieties as you can muster, and see what she is comfortable with. I really like the M&P9ez, that's been a popular one for a lot of the women I've taken to the range.

I've found that while some techniques can be taught, it's really about them being comfortable with their choices.

NEVER buy a gun for a woman that she didn't have input in! If she isn't comfortable with it, she probably wont shoot it, and if she won't shoot it, it's no good for her.

many many moons ago I took my wife to the range,

I put a double handful of handguns on the table in front of her, included the Smith 31 (32 S&W L) revolver she had,

she ( and I ) could not hit the broadside of a barn with her Smith,

she did good with my Grandmother's Smith 36,

she did better with my Browning High Power, much better,


however she liked the Smith 36 better as far as concealability, etc, so she now has that,

I would recommend a S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ. I got one for my wife recently and she loves it as her CCW. She has the non manual safety, has a grip safety only. She liked shooting Glocks, but had issues of racking the slide efficiently because of weakness in her fingers. She has shot snubnose revolvers and did not like them because she found them to be difficult to shoot accurately. I can rack it with just two fingers, it is really easy. Plus the mags have a button lever assist to help load mags, kind of like the Ruger MK IV mags. My local gunshop has .380acp ammo, but FMJ only. But 95g Gold Dots is nothing to sneeze at, that's what's loaded into her gun currently.

Starting off with .22 is fine. I recommend for all new (both men and women) inexperienced shooters:
S&W Model 10, Model 13, or Model 65 4 inch heavy barrel.
Accurate, safe and easy to shoot. Low recoil with practice ammo. Good performance with modern carry ammo.
A 3 inch Ruger LCRx would make a good choice, too. But it is fairly light so there is an increase in recoil. The LCRx has a great trigger for beginners too.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
I would recommend a S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ.

The Shield EZ is also now available in 9mm too, trading a little more felt recoil for some better ballistic performance, compared to the original .380. https://www.smith-wesson.com/9ez

S&W's Shield EZ was specifically designed for less experienced shooters with limited hand strength. They are excellent handgun choices for new shooters, especially petite new shooters.

I fondly and completely non-disparagingly refer to them as "grandma guns", because they're the perfect choice for your grandma who decides that she wants to buy a handgun for self defense. Easy to load and easy to rack, even for those with hand/arm issues or limited strength. And easy to shoot well, due to the light weight, low felt recoil, medium size, decent sights (or optional laser), and decent trigger. Plus they have enough safety mechanisms (including a standard grip safety and an optional manual safety) to help make a less experienced gun owner more comfortable with having it around.

First, I don't mean this as a rude calloused or mean way. Don't flame me.

Having said that, I think women of this nature need to work on hand strength as well as arm strength.

I get it, women are naturally not as strong as men.

But they can get with a physical trainer and work on their hand and grip strength.

The trick will be to find a physical trainer, or ideally a PHYSICAL THERAPIST who understands the goal and has the vision and training and experience to help.

Best wishes to this woman, and to you for helping her.

My son's fiance is maybe 110 soaking wet and loves shooting my Wilson CQB Compact. 9mm in a steel 1911 is a pussycat. Highly recommend an Uplula, I use one all the time. I can load without but at the range there's not much reason to.

Let the lady try as many guns as possible before buying anything!
Let her choose what she likes.

I helped a number of my wife's friends start shooting, mainly 40 and older, and I saw most of them prefer a revolver over a semi auto.
And several of them went with the 327 Federal. I have an SP101 & a LCR in that caliber.

After shooting a .22 moving up is easy. You can use .32S&W, .32S&W Long, .32H&R Mag, for training. Then onward to the .327 Fed.
Even the .32H&R Mag is a decent defensive round.

I’d be looking at a 3”, maybe “4 revolver, shooting lite 38 spcl loads.

Another vote for Shield EZ .380.

Big enough to handle properly and small enough for more petite users to use. Very light recoil, the slide lever on the mags is like having a mag loader built in.

I have an elderly neighbor who can't handle recoil and they chose a Ruger Charger .22 and ruger .22 revolver for the house. As was said, beats harsh words and it's all they can reasonably handle.

The 5.7 may be a good option also, but if she's not a gun person and won't be practicing at all a .22 or .38 revolver may be the best choice.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
My wife is small, but not nearly as petite as your student, perhaps 10-15 lbs. heavier, but has years of experience. She finds the P365 a real challenge, and is much more comfortable shooting her P232, P238, and P938. In your shoes I'd be recommending something in .380ACP rather than 9x19 for a first pistol. The P238 would be a fine pistol to consider.

Thanks for the input.

Very interesting. I have always swayed away from the 380's because of the first ammo panics. I remember 380 being off the shelves the longest. How is ammo availability for 380 these days?

Tony.

My wife loves my P238 and the slide is very easy to rack. She is able to shoot a 9, but prefers the P238 at the range. We don’t shoot tons of 380 at the range, so I have never worried too much about ammo.

Underwood makes some really good 380 defense ammo, but for home defense a rifle is much more effective.

My wife is very petite with small hands. She started with a Sig Mosquito which got her comfortable but the trigger and accuracy were poor so she was ready to move on.

We rented/tested a dozen different pistols and ended up on the HK P2000SK V3 9mm. The first DA trigger pull is challenging but she can do it. She shoots it very accurately once in SA and she can rack the slide without issue.

It's small enough for her to grip but not so small that it was punishing to shoot. Several other good reliable pistols such as the Glock 19 and HK P30 would not function properly when she was shooting them, likely due to limp-wristing. But the P2000SK runs like a top in her hands.

As for long guns she has shot AR's and even my SCAR 17. She prefers the Sig MPX the best and does very well with it.

I've coached a number of gals that had never shot before. Sometimes the phased approach can backfire. Noise and recoil are the two things new shooters comment on. She'll know that she'll be getting to a big boom and bigger recoil at some point.

There is nothing that works every time... sometimes progression is the way to go. But I've been known to go .22 .45 ACP. A 1911 has narrow grips. If she has good stance and grip then it might work. Then you can tell them that a lot of guys can't handle a 1911 and this proves they can handle any gun on the table. Watch their face relax when they hear that!!

I had one gal, about that size, and she was shooting horribly. Two of her 'firearm knowledgeable' male coworkers were 'teaching her to shoot.' I asked if I could help. With an unloaded handgun we worked on grip, stance and sight picture with a 1911. Then had her shoot the 1911. She nailed every shot. I'm talking 5 shots in the size of a quarter at 10 yards - having never shot before. I just had her slow down and concentrate on the fundamentals (grip, stance, aim). (I like my Sig GSR for new shooters - a little heavier than most 1911s which helps with recoil.)

I almost always finished with a bunch of rounds from a buckmark or ruger .22 They left feeling really good about their comfort.

Changing to picking a gun....

> Under pressure, will the person wrap one thumb over the other when they grip the firearm?

> If they limp wrist, the gun might jam. Do they know how to clear a jam?

Sometimes a revolver is the right answer. They might want to put a spring kit in the gun and go with federal ammo (seems to be the softest primers). I think the ideal is a 3" k-frame but those can be hard to find and pricy. Fall back is a j-frame or similar size guns (Ruger, Kimber, Colt).

One tip - load one round at a time for the first 5 shots or so. Then go with a few mags at 2 rounds. New shooters have a tendency to turn to talk with you (or a friend if someone is watching) and forget where they are pointing the muzzle.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by IntrepidTraveler:

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
One of the airweight .38\.357 revolvers

I don't think I'd recommend an airweight.

Yeah... Petite new gun owners tend to gravitate towards petite pistols. That is understandable, since in their mind, smaller and lighter is better when simply holding it in the store.

But what's even worse, well-meaning "gun guys" tend to recommend petite pistols for petite new shooters. For some reason, they seem to ignore the fact that tiny, lightweight guns are some of the hardest handguns to shoot well, even for experienced shooters.

And they will have greater felt recoil than a larger gun. A bad experience with excessive recoil is the quickest and easiest way to turn someone off to guns, and guarantee that the new gun owner sticks that little gun in a drawer and never practices with it, because they don't like the recoil.

I've known quite a few new female shooters who bought a little gun like a J-frame or a Kahr PM9, usually based on the recommendation of their husband/boyfriend, guy friend, or a gun store employee. And then they complain to me that they hate it, and can't hit anything with it, so they never practice with it.

Little guns like airweights J-frames or subcompact semiautos are not good choices for new gun owners in general, and petite new gun owners in particular. J-frames revolvers are an especially awful suggestion for new shooters, having overly heavy triggers, poor sights, low capacity, and convoluted reload procedures.

A quality medium-sized 9mm polymer-framed semiauto is a significantly better choice for a handgun for a new shooter. But as I posted above, for strictly home defense purposes, an AR with a red dot is a better option for a new shooter than a handgun.

I agree..jframes are not good for new shooters. I would get a larger steel frame revolver with bigger grips and a 3-4" barrel!!!

Totally agree with the above. I use to teach concealed carry. Here's what I told my students (most of which never fired a gun before my class).

> Small guns are not fun to shoot at the range but have an advantage. You might be more likely to carry if you have a smaller/lighter handgun.

> If you want to have fun at the range, either get a full size gun or a nice .22

> Consider a small gun for carry and a fun range gun.

I favored the third option. LOL

Something like a CZ Scorpion, a pistol cartridge carbine. Plenty of rounds, extremely low recoil.

Another vote for the P238. Small, accurate, and handles recoil well.

Works surprisingly well for those with larger hands as well as anybody. Shop for a P238 HD if you can find one.

quote:

Originally posted by crue-dell:
Something like a CZ Scorpion, a pistol cartridge carbine. Plenty of rounds, extremely low recoil.

The CZ Scorpion, while definitely fun to shoot and by no means a thumper, does have a bit more felt recoil than some other carbine options, due to it being a small and lightweight gun operating through direct blowback with a rather chunky reciprocating bolt mass.

To me, a mid-weight 5.56 AR has less felt recoil than my Scorpion.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I'm getting ready to train a very petite woman on firearms. We're talking a woman under 100 pounds.

It depends on her mind-set. If she's really interested in learning, she should be able to handle a Glock 17 eventually, no problem. Hard to beat that gun for home defense, in my opinion.

If she's afraid of guns and you're trying to talk her into shooting, who knows.

Starting her off with a .22LR makes sense in either situation. Learning the fundamentals with a round that's not intimidating makes all the sense in the world.

But when the time is right, she should be more than capable of handing a full-size 9mm. She isn't a child.