I'm getting ready to train a very petite woman on firearms. We're talking a woman under 100 pounds. I'm trying to tackle this in stages. First, I'm going to get her started on shooting a 22. I've got a Ruger MKII target, a Browning Buckmark, a Ruger Bearcat, and a Ruger SR-22. We'll go over some basics and get her shooting fundamentals down first.

The Ruger SR-22 is the perfect size, but the trigger his horrible and I don't think she has the hand strength to shoot the first round in DA.

If we have time, after her confidence is built up, and the fear of guns wears off, we may move over to the rifle rage and I can let her shoot my 16" AR.

From past experiences when I take my daughter out (120 pounds and maybe 5'4"), she can't load my Sig P365 mags. She maybe makes it 2 to 3 rounds into it before I have to top off mags. But part of the problem was the long dragon lady fingernails she had that day.

With that in mind, as we look forward in this new shooter's progression, I'd like to narrow down some full-size HD firearms that she can actually load and shoot on her own if she needs to. She lives alone and no man in the house.

For a pistol with a magazine, I might have to find a mag loader device and see if that helps her load 9mm mags. Probably looking at narrowing down a Sig P365 for her sometime down the road.

Another option I'm thinking is a Remington 870 in 20 gauge or even 410 if they make a HD version. If it's 20 gauge, I'd have to look for a light recoil.

Another option is maybe a 9mm AR, or a PDW of some sort, like a CZ scorpion or a Sig MPX, both with arm braces.

Any other tips on training tiny women would be helpful.

Tony.

I highly recommend a 9mm AR-15.

An AR in 5.56 (or possibly 9mm), with a red dot. Preferably something shorter and lightweight, like a braced AR pistol.

Easy to learn. Easier to shoot than a handgun. Easy to load magazines. Less felt recoil.

A lightweight AR15 pistol with a light would be hard to beat, as long as the blast isn’t distracting for her. You can protect a lot of home with 30 rounds of 5.56mm.

My wife had similar issues, but experience has gotten over some. Racking a tough firearm is still a problem. Her carry is a Walther PPSm2, she likes to shoot my Beretta 81 (.32) enough we have two now. We trained with the Beretta Cheetah .22. The PMR30 and FN57 both give her a lot of blast and has helped with flinch, but grip is a bit wide. A tip up .380 Beretta 86 would work if you can find one. She likes my Boberg/Bond Arms Bullpup - lightest slide spring around.

She went through that curve and we also used the SR22 which has since been getting dusty in the safe. Her Walther is her favorite and she is still trying to warm up to the 365. For loading, same issues but the maglula loaders are now her goto after showing her how. Good luck!

One of the airweight .38\.357 revolvers. She can shoot .38 until she gets more comfortable with it.

Something is better than nothing or something she can't handle.

My wife is small, but not nearly as petite as your student, perhaps 10-15 lbs. heavier, but has years of experience. She finds the P365 a real challenge, and is much more comfortable shooting her P232, P238, and P938. In your shoes I'd be recommending something in .380ACP rather than 9x19 for a first pistol. The P238 would be a fine pistol to consider.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
My wife is small, but not nearly as petite as your student, perhaps 10-15 lbs. heavier, but has years of experience. She finds the P365 a real challenge, and is much more comfortable shooting her P232, P238, and P938. In your shoes I'd be recommending something in .380ACP rather than 9x19 for a first pistol. The P238 would be a fine pistol to consider.

Thanks for the input.

Very interesting. I have always swayed away from the 380's because of the first ammo panics. I remember 380 being off the shelves the longest. How is ammo availability for 380 these days?

Tony.

First off, your phased approach is excellent.

As for loading mags, you can't beat Uplula. Reasonable price, easy to work and pretty much indestructible. https://www.maglula.com/shop.

While the 365 is a good option, you might want to get a few different pistols in her hands to see how they feel to her. Either a range that rents or friends with guns are a good way to go.


Same with options like shotgun or AR, if you can get representative samples in her hands at the range, the choice becomes easier.

In the case of a shotgun, one with a correct length of pull and an 18" barrel is important. Too long and it will never be comfortable.

I have shot a friends CZ Scorpion, heavy enough to dampen recoil yet not too long. Might be a good option to try. Caveat: I have big hands so didn't pay attention to the grip to trigger distance, her mileage may vary.

quote:

As for loading mags, you can't beat Uplula. Reasonable price, easy to work and pretty much indestructible. https://www.maglula.com/shop.

Came here to post this. Absolutely get an uplula. I'm 5'8", 165, and in REALLY good shape and I couldn't/can't get my 365 mags loaded! They're super tight.

My wife has a variety of hand guns to choose from, she likes her Sig938, loves the Browning High Power, but she carries a Stainless Steel Ladysmith, has my Smith model 60 in the nightstand drawer. She also has a Colt 6920 by the side of the bed. She really prefers revolvers.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
My wife is small, but not nearly as petite as your student, perhaps 10-15 lbs. heavier, but has years of experience. She finds the P365 a real challenge, and is much more comfortable shooting her P232, P238, and P938. In your shoes I'd be recommending something in .380ACP rather than 9x19 for a first pistol. The P238 would be a fine pistol to consider.

Thanks for the input.

Very interesting. I have always swayed away from the 380's because of the first ammo panics. I remember 380 being off the shelves the longest. How is ammo availability for 380 these days?

Tony.

I've got several thousands rounds in my cabinet. Oh, you mean to buy? Nonexistent.

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
One of the airweight .38\.357 revolvers. She can shoot .38 until she gets more comfortable with it.

Something is better than nothing or something she can't handle.

I don't think I'd recommend an airweight. I have an airweight .44 magnum, and it is hands down the toughest pistol I have ever shot. Although it's very lightweight, the recoil is terrible, as there's no mass in the weapon to absorb it.

She could try the S&W M&P Shield EZ, either in .380 or 9mm. I have seen a few of these at our range and racked a few; it is, in fact, quite easy. Never saw one hiccup. A revolver might be in the cards, too.

Also, maybe start with a .22 rifle before the AR?

quote:

Originally posted by IntrepidTraveler:

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
One of the airweight .38\.357 revolvers

I don't think I'd recommend an airweight.

Yeah... Petite new gun owners tend to gravitate towards petite pistols. That is understandable, since in their mind, smaller and lighter is better when simply holding it in the store.

But what's even worse, well-meaning "gun guys" tend to recommend petite pistols for petite new shooters. For some reason, they seem to ignore the fact that tiny, lightweight guns are some of the hardest handguns to shoot well, even for experienced shooters.

And they will have greater felt recoil than a larger gun. A bad experience with excessive recoil is the quickest and easiest way to turn someone off to guns, and guarantee that the new gun owner sticks that little gun in a drawer and never practices with it, because they don't like the recoil.

I've known quite a few new female shooters who bought a little gun like a J-frame or a Kahr PM9, usually based on the recommendation of their husband/boyfriend, guy friend, or a gun store employee. And then they complain to me that they hate it, and can't hit anything with it, so they never practice with it.

Little guns like airweights J-frames or subcompact semiautos are not good choices for new gun owners in general, and petite new gun owners in particular. J-frames revolvers are an especially awful suggestion for new shooters, having overly heavy triggers, poor sights, low capacity, and convoluted reload procedures.

A quality medium-sized 9mm polymer-framed semiauto is a significantly better choice for a handgun for a new shooter. But as I posted above, for strictly home defense purposes, an AR with a red dot is a better option for a new shooter than a handgun.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:

Thanks for the input.

Very interesting. I have always swayed away from the 380's because of the first ammo panics. I remember 380 being off the shelves the longest. How is ammo availability for 380 these days?

Tony.

Others have had great suggestions. I like the AR pistol idea, I may actually look into one for my girlfriend for home defense.

To answer your question at least anecdotally, .380 is not available at all locally right now, and hasn't been for months. It wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's a caliber you need to buy cheap and stack deep. I just don't know when the next opportunity to do that will come.

An FN or Ruger 57 could also be a good choice.

If she wants a revolver, a full size 38 or larger 327 could be good. (I know several ladies who like their 3” 327 SP101s)

I've helped many women learn to shoot, and I have found that each and every one is different. So I have taken the approach of getting as many different firearms as I can and letting them try them all.

I've seen athletic women lack the wrist strength to control the recoil of an airweight revolver, but shot a 1911 with no hesitation, I've seen my own wife shoot her P238 better than I can.

I recommend at a minimum bringing a heavy revolver, and airweight revolver, a .380, a 9mm, and yes, even a 1911 in 45. As many varieties as you can muster, and see what she is comfortable with. I really like the M&P9ez, that's been a popular one for a lot of the women I've taken to the range.

I've found that while some techniques can be taught, it's really about them being comfortable with their choices.

NEVER buy a gun for a woman that she didn't have input in! If she isn't comfortable with it, she probably wont shoot it, and if she won't shoot it, it's no good for her.

If a small rifle is a possibility, maybe a PS-90?

It is ridiculously light, has close to zero recoil so followon shots can be very quick, is physically about as small as a rifle can get without requiring SBR papers, and the not-very-hard-to-load mags hold 50 rounds.

50 rounds gives a good bit of reassurance if a new shooter is not solid about their likely accuracy under stress.

And it is fun to shoot, so range time will be a blast, encouraging practice sessions to build skills.

Since you said home defense, and not carry, I would suggest a long gun. Either a youth model autoloading 20 gauge or a rifle chambered in .223 or 300 Blk. My kids have been shooting both well since they were 8 years old or younger.