Reading the pages of prognistications of doom and gloom for you all, if your own government gets its way, it might be a timely reminder that your ancestors fought a bloody and protracted war of rebellion to decide your own future.

The land that some of your ancestors left behind, the British Isles, has some pretty strange laws, that's for certain, but bleeve it or don't, there ARE worse places to live if you are, or want to be, a gun-owner.

So, here's the skinny for today - 11 June 2022.....

On Mainland United Kingdom/aka Great Britain - England, Scotland and Wales......

We can have ANY shotgun that holds UP TO 3 cartridges can be held on a Section 2 Shotgun certificate. A fourteen-year-old can hold a shotgun certificate - many do, and compete in the usual shotgun sports at the very highest level. That's why the UK STILL does well in these sports, in spite of the limitations imposed by draconian laws.

These shotguns must have a barrel or barrels longer than 24" to comply. Having gotten your Section 2 Certificate, you can then have as many Section 2 shotguns as you want/afford.

We can have ANY shotgun that holds MORE than 3 cartridges - up to eight [so that we can shoot practical shotgun comps] on a Section 1 Firearms Certificate FAC].

Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK in which a person can legally own a modern cartridge-firing handgun that looks just like the ones you can buy in the USA. The reasons why they can, and WE on the Mainland of UK can not are complex, and unless you have a good grasp of the recent history of Northern Ireland it would probably not make any sense to you. While is IS possible to own a cartridge-firing handgun on mainland UK, this is usually limited to large-animal veterinarians to use for humane despatch. However there are tow ways that an ordinary Joe like me can own a cartridge-firing handgun on mainland UK. Number one is to own a so-called long-barrelled revolver [LBR] or pistol [LBP]. They have barrels of 12" minimum, and a kind of a sticky-out addition permanently welded to the base of the grip to make them 24" oal. You can have any calibre made that is available. You can NOT convert a handgun to an LBR by changing the barrel - remember that you can't have the original here. If you want a semi- then you are limited to a .22cal only. All these are Section 1 firearms. If you want the real deal, then you have to apply for a different type of FAC, instead of a Section 1, it's a Section 7a or B. With Section 7a you can OWN the handgun, but you can't shoot it. With Section 7b you can own it, AND shoot it, but only on one of around twelve specially-dedicated ranges where the gun and ammunition MUST be stored. You go there to shoot it, like visiting a brother in jail. Having commanded troops, this is NOT to MY liking, so I don't lower myself to do it.

Northern Ireland is also the only part of the UK where the GOVERNMENT issues personal defence handguns - around 3500 ATM - for people whose lives are still under threat from the usual terrorist organisations.

While none of us can have a semi-auto CENTREFIRE rifle or carbine, we can have anything else, up to .75cal. That limitation is set because, right now, there is no commercially-available firearm that is bigger. BTW, the UK .50cal shooting association is the largest outside the USA.

We can own any calibre muzzle-loading smooth-bore up to 2" calibre - punt guns fit in this limitation. We can also have cannons, but that comes under a separate heading outside the remit of hand-held firearms.

We can own magazines of any capacity.

We can own any and all types and styles of night-vision equipment - much of the best in the world comes from UK anyhow.

We can have sound suppressors/moderators/silencers without paying an ownership tax. It compulsory for night-shooting on any calibre and yes, we can shoot 24/7/365.

We can own any kind of muzzleloading rifle or handgun.

We can freely buy ANY obsolete calibre firearm on the HUGE list of so-called obsolete calibres - under Section 58 of the firearms Act. BUT, if we want to shoot it, we must have a Firearms Certificate with that particular arm or calibre on it to authorise it, like my Snider or Pritchett rifles.

We can reload for any of the calibres we have. What we can NOT do is load for a calibre for which we do not have authorisation.

We can buy black powder, but like everywhere else in the civilised world except the USA, we need a license to do it. It's free and lasts five years - mine is tied to my Firearms Certificate so both get renewed at the same time. It must also be stored in an approved safety container.

We are required to keep our guns at home - locked up, but at home. They can NOT be on display as you have them in the USA. Only obsolete calibre firearms or de-acs can be openly displayed. All modern-manufacture replicas capable of firing are classed as Section 1 firearms, just like anything else that shoots a cartridge, and must be treated the same way.

The Authorities CAN come to your house to check them, but they need either a Search Warrant, or what you would call justifiable cause, to do so. If they have neither, then you can tell them to poke off/GoPUAR. When you apply for another firearm, the FEO might ask to see your guns to check them out. Mine has done so once in the last 34 years...

There ARE worse places to own a gun - shooters in the Republic of Ireland might be considered lucky by shooters on mainland GB, as they can have a .22 calibre handgun - but it is limited to 5 shots. They can also have a semi-auto centrefire rifle or carbine, but it has to look innocuous - black is not popular, and there no bullpup anythings - they are prohibited. There are moves afoot to stop licensing those few lucky owners of a FAL/SLR/Garand/M1 carbine - there are probably less than twelve [yes, read that again, twelve] in the entire country.

All guns that fire a projectile of more than 1 Joule m/e have to be licensed - yes, licensed, not on a certificate. You might need to look up the difference - in law, it is considerable.

That means that ALL airguns require a license. All airgun pellets are classed the same as real-live ammunition - try having a limitation of just 200 airgun pellets and having to buy them 200 at a time...

Crossbows are prohibited.

Although target archery is a popular and thriving sport in the Republic, there is no hunting with a bow.

You can NOT set up a target on your own land to zero in a gun. This is classed as 'target shooting' and your land is NOT authorised for target shooting. You must be full member of a gun club, or as they call it there, a range, in order to carry out target shooting. This can be pricey, to say the least.

Hunting of local game, OTOH, is a popular and in some places, necessary part of shooting in Ireland - even now a mainly rural country. Pest control is vital for animal husbandry. Poaching, however, is endemic and a real problem for authorised shooters.

Firearms licenses are needed for EACH gun - yes, EVERY individual gun has to be licensed - currently three years, hopefully soon to be five, but at a cost of 80eu each.

There is NO black powder shooting except a few people licensed to shoot blanks for re-enactment purposes. The Spike Island midday gun in Cork Harbour is the remit of the Army, not a bunch of dressed-up civilians.

Worse?

Yup. There is no reloading unless you are in the National squad, or likely to be in it. So, out of a quarter of a million shooters, around forty can reload so that they are on an equal footing with, say, the USA rifle team. However, it is carried out in a secured bunker, with guards, and in just one location, the Midlands National Shooting Centre at Tullaghmore - it's just called 'The Midlands'. There are a number of clubs countrywide, but club membership is, let's say, costy - around 600eu for the first year, with, I think, another 600eu 'joining fee', for the Midlands. For every one else, possession of a loose bullet, or a primer, or any kind of propellant is an offence under the Anti-terrorism Act. As it is an absolute offence, ie. you either are or are not in possession, there is no defence.

It's odd to me that in spite of Ireland being the spiritual or even ancestral home of so many Americans, from presidents downwards, nobody has ever mentioned just how restrictive The Republic of Ireland's gun laws are. A gentle reminder that this year marks the 100th anniversary of Ireland gaining a measure of independence from the rest of the United Kingdom - a commendable achievement gained by force of arms, and the ruthless application of a guerrilla war in which my own father played a small but very noisy part.

Sounds familiar?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tacfoley,

Thank you for the read and education Tac.

Thank you for taking the time to write all this, very informative. It would be interesting to read more on the history of firearms in the Republic. I suppose I could put forth the idea of centuries of British oppression.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
Thank you for taking the time to write all this, very informative. It would be interesting to read more on the history of firearms in the Republic. I suppose I could put forth the idea of centuries of British oppression.

Yup, no argument there. Although Ireland had literally zero degree of autonomy before 1922, there were always rural shooters with shotguns, but rifle shooting was the province of the gentry, and remember, please, that there was a VERY high level of local bigwigs, native to the country. In the latter part of the 19th C the famous gunmaker, John Rigby was founded in Dublin, and there had been a long and distinguished history before that of fine pistols, usually made in pairs, for travelling or even duelling, both in Dublin and in Cork.

Irish guns at auction always fetch a premium these days. Back in the 1860 and 80's, the Irish rifle team was THE team to beat, and at Creedmoor ranges in USA, they only lost to the American team because one shooter put his shot on the American target.....

After 1922, in general, firearms were limited by the new-found state, usually to shotguns and .22cal. My dad bought a .22 Walther in 1930 which I still shoot, having learned to shoot on it as a youngster. You can see it on my YouTube channel - tac's guns Walther - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTQT-JEKqQU

Wow. Thank you Tac for the incredibly detailed and informative post regarding gun laws from the home of my ancestors. There are some states in this country that would love to make those laws seem relaxed. It certainly affords me quite a bit of perspective today.

BTW, Tac I am kicking myself for not trying harder to make it out to the TT this year….my uncle was really trying to get me to go with him but it was a bit last minute. I didn’t think Michael Dunlop would win the Senior TT again on that GSX-R1000 though I was REALLY hoping it would happen. Oh well, I’m glad to see a the mighty S1000RR win it all though it would have been even better if Connor could have won instead of finishing 3rd. I’ll never forget how surprised I was when I saw his infamous crash and later learned he not only survived it but he still races.

Hopefully I’ll see you there one day.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Wow. Thank you Tac for the incredibly detailed and informative post regarding gun laws from the home of my ancestors. There are some states in this country that would love to make those laws seem relaxed. It certainly affords me quite a bit of perspective today.

BTW, Tac I am kicking myself for not trying harder to make it out to the TT this year….my uncle was really trying to get me to go with him but it was a bit last minute. I didn’t think Michael Dunlop would win the Senior TT again on that GSX-R1000 though I was REALLY hoping it would happen. Oh well, I’m glad to see a the mighty S1000RR win it all though it would have been even better if Connor could have won instead of finishing 3rd. I’ll never forget how surprised I was when I saw his infamous crash and later learned he not only survived it but he still races.

Hopefully I’ll see you there one day.

Having a really BAD time at the IoM TT right now, a father and son sidecar team pair died today, making five fatalities so far.

I hate to say it but to be 100% honest I am not surprised that the TT has been so unforgiving and heart breaking this year. Some years are worse than others for sure but when it’s the first time they have had the chance to race in years and we’re fresh off a global lock down I was worried it might be a tough TT with regards to losing riders.

The father son loss is just terrible. It’s one of the aspects of the TT that makes the event bitter sweet and unique at the same time. That the level of danger, the speed at tightness of the course with no areas to bleed off speed means it kills people basically every year.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
Reading the pages of prognistications of doom and gloom for you all, if your own government gets its way, it might be a timely reminder that your ancestors fought a bloody and protracted war of rebellion to decide your own future.

Thanks for all that information in a concise form.

On April 19, 1775 the British marched for Concord, Massachusetts to confiscate citizens' weapons. As they passed through Lexington on the way, they were met by militia and shots were exchanged - the first shots fired in the Revolutionary War. Eight militiamen were killed, 9 wounded.

One of those 77 militiamen on the Lexington town green was Allen Bangs, my 7th Great Grandfather. He set a high standard which none of us should ignore. I try to be optimistic for this country but we may have very hard choices ahead.

OT, but connected to Ireland. My family tree by lore and research includes a line of "North" family. Some GG...Grandparents fought on our side against their distant cousin Lord North. One ancestor prior to that was the Lord Lt of Ireland. (As found on the internet

A quick note, we are roughly 12 generations removed from the Revolutionary War. That means you would have 4,094 ancestors in that generation alone!

Given the smaller population numbers in the past, this is why almost everyone can lay claim to some royal this or famous that ancestor.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
A quick note, we are roughly 12 generations removed from the Revolutionary War. That means you would have 4,094 ancestors in that generation alone!

Given the smaller population numbers in the past, this is why almost everyone can lay claim to some royal this or famous that ancestor.

Very true! It is fun to go back and look to see who is in the family tree. I've been concentrating on direct line ancestors, not distant cousins, which would open up mind boggling numbers of relatives within just a few generations.

In the other direction it is also quite interesting to see who the descendants are. Some families successfully had several generations with many surviving children which creates enormous numbers of descendants.

One of my direct ancestors is Stephen Hopkins who was a Jamestown settler and then a Mayflower passenger. His story is pretty interesting (shipwrecked, convicted of mutiny and sentenced to death ....). Hopkins has a huge number of descendants, including a signer of the Declaration of Independence, a participant in the Boston Tea Party, Gordon Hinkley (leader of the Mormon church), Sarah Palin, Dan Quayle, and Tennessee Williams. There are many thousands of descendants of Hopkins alive today.