I see yet another gun buy-back/ gift card exchange program in my area start up for the holidays.It's a no questions asked program. How are stolen guns dealt with? Are they taken off stolen guns registries? Is BATFE notified? Do owners have any chance of getting their stuff back? What obligations does the sponsoring organization have? How about the local law enforcement?
-------------------------------------------- You can't have no idea how little I care.
December 19, 2021, 04:51 PM
ZSMICHAEL
I do not think they bother. Local church groups have done this sort of thing. Most of the guns are junk anyway. Most LEOs think these programs are a waste of time. It is not gangbangers that are turning in the guns.
December 19, 2021, 04:52 PM
Skins2881
I've always wondered who's doing the 4473's for all of these gun sales?
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
December 19, 2021, 05:12 PM
jljones
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881: I've always wondered who's doing the 4473's for all of these gun sales?
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"
December 19, 2021, 05:33 PM
1flynDO
I have always wanted to take some cash and see what I could buy out of the line.
December 19, 2021, 05:36 PM
hrcjon
quote:
What 4473s?
Honestly this. They PAY for the guns, often in States that don't allow person to person transfers (like IL and CA) how the heck do they get away with that?
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
December 19, 2021, 05:45 PM
cas
They're special.
It's not always a PD doing it, sometime it's church and civic groups. They end up in possession of stolen property, guns with defaced serial numbers, illegal sawed of shotguns. All just fine and dandy.
_____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.
December 19, 2021, 05:46 PM
MikeinNC
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels: … How are stolen guns dealt with? … Are they taken off stolen guns registries? …Is BATFE notified? … Do owners have any chance of getting their stuff back? … What obligations does the sponsoring organization have? ….How about the local law enforcement?
1. The buy back I saw up north was run by the police. Serial numbers were run after they quit buying guns from the public that day. 2. If you run numbers and they come back as stolen-the department contacts the originating department and notifies them of the recovery and asks for contact info for the owner(who reported it originally) if the gun is gonna be evidence in the recovered jurisdiction then it gets put into the property system until it goes they court and a judge determines what is to be done under their laws. Then the originating agency removes the serial number from NCIC . 3. I can’t think of why batfe would be notified for any reason…unless it’s a machine gun and the want to know how to properly destroy the gun… 4. Owners get notified by the originating department when a gun is recovered. But a lot of times decades have passed and numbers in an old report are no longer good. Trying to find the owner thru google or police databases help-sometimes….. 5. If 5e agency running the buy back is a LE agency, then there is the requirement to run the serial numbers to try and return property or remove numbers in NCIC to clean the rolls -so to speak. 6. Any LE agency that is running a buy back should at least run the numbers to remove stolen guns and return property to the rightful owners.
Hope this helps.
When I was working, we had to go thru our property reports annually and try and return property, release property, destroy property/evidence, or keep it for trial. Rape kits were kept until a case was adjudicated. (Meaning if the suspect got five years and he had been released from the system the kit was destroyed-otherwise kits were kept for 99 years). A lot of officers didn’t keep up with court cases to know to destroy the evidence at the end of the case or he might not have been there the day of the case or there was a deal..so checking annually helped reduce property/evidence.
Murder cases were kept for 99 years regardless of outcome…never know when someone might try to get another trial after he’s been sentenced, or other info is found.
After my stroke (until I retired) I was tasked with doing this very thing for old cases and retired officers..I also did my friends a solid one and did their property reports too. You get the case umber, the offender and look it up in the courts system to find the outcome and judges orders. And follow those, if it wasn’t expressly written in the court case, then A Court Order was prepared for a judge to sign for the PD to destroy any evidence(drugs paraphernalia etc, or to return stuff back to victims. Money was ordered to be give to the school board (per NC law). Sometimes things could be sold to the public like bikes, cars, parts, etc….go look at property room.com and you will se everything.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
December 19, 2021, 06:46 PM
p08
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
quote:
What 4473s?
Honestly this. They PAY for the guns, often in States that don't allow person to person transfers (like IL and CA) how the heck do they get away with that?
Leave Illinois out of that statement. You can do person to person here still.
------------------------------------- Always the pall bearer, never the corpse.
December 19, 2021, 07:35 PM
Wheels
The program that sparked my interest locally is run by a local church. It has been running 1/4 and 1/8 page ads in the local paper for weeks. No questions asked. Gift cards are awarded on a graded scale. Meanwhile, the paper is running a story about the recovery of two handguns that were recovered from a burglary of a state trooper's house by two underage suspects. His duty weapon is still in the wind.
-------------------------------------------- You can't have no idea how little I care.
December 19, 2021, 07:39 PM
Wheels
BATFE is paperwork and regulations, Federal,state and local.
-------------------------------------------- You can't have no idea how little I care.
December 19, 2021, 07:57 PM
Lefty Sig
I'm waiting for one in Indiana. About a decade ago my developing do-it-myself gunsmithing skills got the better of me and a ruined a Hi-Power frame. I parted it out and got a decent amount of money back to make up for my screw-up but I still have the frame laying around so if I can get $50 or $100 or it I wouldn't mind. Maybe I can take an AR barrel I don't need and rig up a pipe with a closed end and a fixed firing pin and tell them it's a zip gun. Hell, I might actually do better off this way then selling the parts!
December 20, 2021, 07:52 AM
Flash-LB
The last time they did one around here, guys lined up on the way into the buy back and offered better money than the buy back was offering for good quality guns.
The buy back people didn't like it, but it's perfectly legal here.
December 20, 2021, 08:19 AM
Rick Lee
quote:
Originally posted by 1flynDO: I have always wanted to take some cash and see what I could buy out of the line.
I've done it. In fact, the guy I went with about 12 yrs. ago to do this I happened to run into at a pawn shop yesterday. He and I drove between each drop off point, just back and forth, looking for people getting out of their cars, walking up to the churches. Cops were at the churches and the churches were offering $100 gift cards. Mind you, at that time you could still buy Mosin Nagants for $69. Not that I would do such a thing to ensure a cool gun gets destroyed, but, in theory, you could buy 10 Mosins and make a $250 profit after sales tax then.
Anyway, my buddy ended up with a Bersa .380 for $50 and a Russian Makarov for $50. I wanted the Mak, but he beat me to the guy. By then the church people and cops had run out of gift cards. The Phoenix PD plainclothes cops told us we were "taking advantage of people." We protested that we were just giving folks the money the cops and church no longer had. They gave us a verbal trespass warning and that was that. We left.
December 20, 2021, 08:20 AM
Tirod
Keep in mind that "buy back" implies they are owned by someone other than the possessor. In the case of PD's nobody knowingly brings any stolen guns. Unless there is a documented chain of 4473's proving otherwise, face to face sales of handguns in a state are largely off books and ownership is determined by who's hands are holding it at the time. Possession being 9/10s and all that. Like, weed.
Of current interest are links on line on how to make a shotgun out of water pipe, strapping and a 2x4, total cost is way less than the bounty paid and some enterprising gun rights operatives are draining the coffers turning in these legal yet problematic shotguns. There may be more internet hype than reality but some are being turned it.
It's gone from "taking these murderous guns off the street" to "home built junk for profit." The enterprising American citizen at work.
December 20, 2021, 10:31 AM
lyman
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
quote:
What 4473s?
Honestly this. They PAY for the guns, often in States that don't allow person to person transfers (like IL and CA) how the heck do they get away with that?
it's not a person to person,
the person that is turning in the gun is turning it in to an entity, police ,etc, not an individual,
https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/
December 20, 2021, 06:50 PM
Blackmore
quote:
Originally posted by Tirod:
Of current interest are links on line on how to make a shotgun out of water pipe, strapping and a 2x4, total cost is way less than the bounty paid and some enterprising gun rights operatives are draining the coffers turning in these legal yet problematic shotguns. There may be more internet hype than reality but some are being turned it.
Truth: The New Hate Speech
December 20, 2021, 09:02 PM
rscalzo
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels:
1. The buy back I saw up north was run by the police. Serial numbers were run after they quit buying guns from the public that day. 2. If you run numbers and they come back as stolen-the department contacts the originating department and notifies them of the recovery and asks for contact info for the owner(who reported it originally) if the gun is gonna be evidence in the recovered jurisdiction then it gets put into the property system until it goes they court and a judge determines what is to be done under their laws. Then the originating agency removes the serial number from NCIC . 3. I can’t think of why batfe would be notified for any reason…unless it’s a machine gun and the want to know how to properly destroy the gun… 4. Owners get notified by the originating department when a gun is recovered. But a lot of times decades have passed and numbers in an old report are no longer good. Trying to find the owner thru google or police databases help-sometimes….. 5. If 5e agency running the buy back is a LE agency, then there is the requirement to run the serial numbers to try and return property or remove numbers in NCIC to clean the rolls -so to speak. 6. Any LE agency that is running a buy back should at least run the numbers to remove stolen guns and return property to the rightful owners.
Hope this helps.
When I was working, we had to go thru our property reports annually and try and return property, release property, destroy property/evidence, or keep it for trial. Rape kits were kept until a case was adjudicated. (Meaning if the suspect got five years and he had been released from the system the kit was destroyed-otherwise kits were kept for 99 years). A lot of officers didn’t keep up with court cases to know to destroy the evidence at the end of the case or he might not have been there the day of the case or there was a deal..so checking annually helped reduce property/evidence.
Murder cases were kept for 99 years regardless of outcome…never know when someone might try to get another trial after he’s been sentenced, or other info is found.
After my stroke (until I retired) I was tasked with doing this very thing for old cases and retired officers..I also did my friends a solid one and did their property reports too. You get the case umber, the offender and look it up in the courts system to find the outcome and judges orders. And follow those, if it wasn’t expressly written in the court case, then A Court Order was prepared for a judge to sign for the PD to destroy any evidence(drugs paraphernalia etc, or to return stuff back to victims. Money was ordered to be give to the school board (per NC law). Sometimes things could be sold to the public like bikes, cars, parts, etc….go look at property room.com and you will se everything.
It the gun is in the "GUN FILE", a LOCATE message is sent and it generates a message to the ORI (Originating Agency). They are required to send a response. It's up to them to contact the owner. Property isn't returned to that agency (unless a special deal is made). It's up to the owner to claim the property from the agency recovering it. Many times it's not worth the effort so it would be disposed of and that is determined by the jurisdiction.
^^ you’re right, but I was stating what I did over a career. If I got a gun hit, I got a copy of the hit from 911 and called the originating department. And went from there…if it was a case from my department I called the owner and told him of the recovery and possibility of it being used as evidence in a new case and the need for keeping it.
Certainly I can’t explain every possible outcome in a recovery or a HIT from a serial check. I was just trying to explain it in a general way.This message has been edited. Last edited by: MikeinNC,
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
December 21, 2021, 09:17 AM
lyman
quote:
Originally posted by Blackmore:
quote:
Originally posted by Tirod:
Of current interest are links on line on how to make a shotgun out of water pipe, strapping and a 2x4, total cost is way less than the bounty paid and some enterprising gun rights operatives are draining the coffers turning in these legal yet problematic shotguns. There may be more internet hype than reality but some are being turned it.
I have been buying guns from an insurance company that has corporate offices near by,
about every 3 yrs or so I will get a call to come place a bid, and I usually win,
first year was a pile smoke and fire damaged guns and black powder
most were just smoke and limited water damage, about an hour each cleaning and they were good to go (plastic stock etc not heat damaged, before someone chimes in)
there were 3 or 4 that were basically charcoal stocks and rusty metal,
sold them for $20 each, to a few guys headed to a buyback program
they rattle canned them black, right over the charred stocks and rust, and turned them in for gift cards for ~$100 each
