A review of a sort. Something of a vent.

Wanted to get back up to speed in Dutch. Given all the recommendations I'd seen here, decided to Duolingo a try. It was "just ok," IMO, but, it seemed somewhat useful so I stuck with it.

Issues:

• Most annoyingly: They seem to employ no algorithm to discriminate between things you've learned and things you have not. Thus, whether you make mistakes or not, you get needless repetition on sometimes trivial words and phrases, and no increased repetition on things you miss.
  
• There's very little variation in the phrases presented. So if you you can memorize a correct answer when you get it wrong (not necessarily difficult--see next point) you can give it what it wants on subsequent tries without necessarily having learned the word or syntax.
  
• It isn't until I got well into it that they actually started using words I'd "learned" in more complex sentences, which is what one really needs to have them stick.
  
• They too-often (IMO) supply multiple-guess selections for translation, rather than forcing you to come up with the words and spell them yourself. (Which makes it trivially easy to "guess your way out." I finally got in the habit of figuring out the Dutch translation in my head, then looking at the multiple-guess choices presented.)
  
• They have set ideas on how non-English translates, so, for example, you'll get nicked for translating something as "We'll stay here just a while" instead of "We'll stay here just for a while" or "We'll stay here for just a while."
  
• You have to sometimes "type what you hear," but their language speaker sometimes badly mangles words. So badly my wife, who's a native Dutch speaker, and whose hearing is fine, sometimes went "What?!?!" and other times just laughed.
  
• Those last two things were annoying enough, but then they introduced "health." The idea being if you make too many mistakes, they delay your being able to continue because they feel you're going too fast. Their idea of "too many" is precious few and the delay is four hours.
  

That last was the last straw for me. I just deleted my Duolingo apps and account. I cannot recommend it as a language learning tool.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic,

Odd, my experience with the German one has been the opposite. It keeps my German brain going, especially with mundane stuff that I forget.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
Odd, my experience with the German one has been the opposite. It keeps my German brain going, especially with mundane stuff that I forget.

My God, if I was already at all fluent in a language Duolingo would drive me batty. It was difficult enough to tolerate the mindless repetition as it was. My wife several times asked me "How can you stand that?" "As a (re-)learner, the repetition can be good," I'd tell her. She'd just shake her head and say "That'd drive me nuts." (Mind you: This is a woman who's fluent in Dutch, English, German, French and Spanish. So it's not like she hasn't been around that particular block once or twice herself. Oh yeah: She knows some Latin, as well.)

I was able to stick with it until they came up with this whole "crowns" and "health" thing. Then the vague annoyance turned into down-right frustration.

If I knew a language at all well, and I'm getting there with Dutch, I'd read news and listen to a streaming news or talk station in that language to maintain fluency.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:
Odd, my experience with the German one has been the opposite. It keeps my German brain going, especially with mundane stuff that I forget.

My God, if I was already at all fluent in a language Duolingo would drive me batty. It was difficult enough to tolerate the mindless repetition as it was. My wife several times asked me "How can you stand that?" "As a (re-)learner, the repetition can be good," I'd tell her. She'd just shake her head and say "That'd drive me nuts." (Mind you: This is a woman who's fluent in Dutch, English, German, French and Spanish. So it's not like she hasn't been around that particular block once or twice herself. Oh yeah: She knows some Latin, as well.)

I was able to stick with it until they came up with this whole "crowns" and "health" thing. Then the vague annoyance turned into down-right frustration.

If I knew a language at all well, and I'm getting there with Dutch, I'd read news and listen to a streaming news or talk station in that language to maintain fluency.

I agree, no issues here with spanish. I also use the flash cards that let you work on "weak" words, i.e. ones that you haven't visited in awhile. You can also use strengthen words but I havent tried the dutch.

I do admit some of the native phrases can be tough but when I turn to spanish channel its about the same so I cant say whether I'd have the issue of the last 2 you mentioned.

I've been using Duolingo Spanish for several years, primarily for reading purposes. Since that's been my focus, I can read Spanish fairly well, write it slowly, speak it slower still, and can't understand much of the spoken word at all. Unfortunately, they got rid of the "Immersion" (translation) part a couple of years ago and I think that really reduced its overall effectiveness.

Spanish, French, and German were among the original languages. Many of the others were developed by users with help from the Duolingo team, and they don't have some of the resources like Bots and Lab stories that the original languages have. Some of the later languages may not accept as wide a range of translations as an older program like Spanish. On the computer, there is a discussion available about most sentences (in Spanish, anyway) where users and native speakers often discuss various forms that are accepted and why some may not be.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

They too-often (IMO) supply multiple-guess selections for translation, rather than forcing you to come up with the words and spell them yourself. (Which makes it trivially easy to "guess your way out." I finally got in the habit of figuring out the Dutch translation in my head, then looking at the multiple-guess choices presented.)

That's something that most users have to learn eventually if they're going to be effective with Duolingo. Say what you're seeking and then find it in the list.

I started off on the app but eventually moved primarily to the computer, so I've never run into the issue with the "health" part, which was added long after I finished my skill tree. I can see how the delays you mentioned could be a pain to new learners working their way through skills.

Finally, learners using Duolingo should understand that it is an introductory course (I think Spanish is up to 2,500 or so words now, but a lot of the languages that have been added don't have so many). To become truly fluent, most learners starting off with Duolingo will eventually need to utilize other resources to supplement their learning.

quote:

Originally posted by StarTraveler:
Finally, learners using Duolingo should understand that it is an introductory course ...

That became quite clear right out of the gate. But, I would argue, even as a beginner's course it has some serious deficiencies.

Like I said: I could overlook it's deficiencies--until they blew way past my tolerance for tedium with the latest changes. I look to be challenged, not bored to tears.

I understand and agree. I gave up on the Duolingo Italian tree for similar reasons. It wasn't nearly as well developed as the Spanish set and was pretty frustrating.