Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan.
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Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
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Originally posted by sig229-SAS: I'm curious, do naval vessels have voice recorders on the bridge? What about tracking of position, rudder position, speed, course changes etc.?
Without having read any replies to this - yet - the answer is "no."
This is a warship. Having such logs captured or seized would compromise the fleet's security.
I haven't been on a destroyer in awhile, but other combat ships I have been on have Voice Data Recorders on the bridge.
June 18, 2017, 07:08 AM
f2
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Originally posted by Rightwire: I would think that in the case of ships this size that decision point would be with them a mile or so apart on the high seas.
Unless you're in a high traffic area. Which the approaches to Tokyo Wan definitely are.
Originally posted by Rightwire: There are a lot of rules about right of way. Someone is right, someone is wrong. But at some point one or both of them, seeing imminent collision, needs to take hard evasive action.
I would think that in the case of ships this size that decision point would be with them a mile or so apart on the high seas.
In energency ship handling, there is a term, "in extremis" which is the point at which no combination of rudders and engines and maneuvers can avoid the collision. That point varies, of course, with the ships, speeds, winds, currents, the actions already taken, etc.
It can be a long way, both time and distance.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
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Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time, shortly before the time of the collision given by the U.S. Navy of approximately 2:20 a.m.
However, Nippon Yusen K.K . , the Japanese shipping company that operates the 728-foot-long ACX Crystal, has stated that the collision occurred around 1:30 a.m. That discrepancy hasn’t been resolved.
“She did not reverse the course before the collision. She did after the collision,” a Nippon Yusen company spokesman said.
On June 17, 2017, about 01:30 Japan Standard Time, ACX Crystal, a containership chartered by NYK collided with US Navy destroyer USS Fitzgerald at 20km off the coast of Shimoda, Shizuoka prefecture in Japan.
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good call Balze
when looking at the previous cargo ship tracks, 130 am local = 1630 UTC
For a 1630 UTC collision, tracking data indicates ACX Crystal was going 18.5 knts w course 68 deg at time of collisionThis message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,
June 18, 2017, 08:54 AM
erj_pilot
Forgive me if already posted, but I have yet to see an article on this.....
Undisclosed number of sailors found in flooded compartments. RIP warriors.
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Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time, shortly before the time of the collision given by the U.S. Navy of approximately 2:20 a.m.
However, Nippon Yusen K.K . , the Japanese shipping company that operates the 728-foot-long ACX Crystal, has stated that the collision occurred around 1:30 a.m. That discrepancy hasn’t been resolved.
“She did not reverse the course before the collision. She did after the collision,” a Nippon Yusen company spokesman said.
sdy...Did the US Navy ever actually give a time of collision? I thought the 2:20 time was given as the time of the distress call from the tanker, I never read where the Navy offered a time of collision. I know some media jumped to the conclusion that that was the time of collision.
The news from the shipping company would confirm Balze's theory that the tanker collided and then turned to come back and that's when they issued the distress signal.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams
June 18, 2017, 09:08 AM
Gustofer
Looks to me like all of the damage is over about 10 feet above the water line. Where is the internal flooding coming from?
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June 18, 2017, 09:10 AM
Balzé Halzé
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Originally posted by Gustofer: Looks to me like all of the damage is over about 10 feet above the water line. Where is the internal flooding coming from?
The bulbous bow of the container ship penetrated the destroyer below the water line.
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PHILIPPINE SEA (NNS) -- USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with a merchant vessel at approximately 2:30 a.m. local time, June 17, while operating about 56 nautical miles southwest of Yokosuka, Japan.
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have been a little frustrated w U.S. Navy not clarifying the exact time.
PHILIPPINE SEA (NNS) -- USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with a merchant vessel at approximately 2:30 a.m. local time, June 17, while operating about 56 nautical miles southwest of Yokosuka, Japan.
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have been a little frustrated w U.S. Navy not clarifying the exact time.
Ah, yes I bet they will be correcting that soon.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams
Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time...
williamson turn.
June 18, 2017, 10:36 AM
FRANKT
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Originally posted by kimber1911: The metal appears to be smeared aft, which would seem to indicate the Destroyer was traveling faster than the cargo ship.
And when I look at the pictures of the Crystal on pages 3 and 5 I have to wonder why the haze gray paint that has been deposited on her hull is only on the back (aft) side of that collar where her anchor chain exits the hull. Weird.
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June 18, 2017, 10:37 AM
f2
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Originally posted by f2: does it look like the container ship's damage is very high up to where the FITZGERALD's damage is?
maybe the container ship's bulbous bow partially lifted up FITZGERALD as they connected.This message has been edited. Last edited by: f2,
June 18, 2017, 10:41 AM
6guns
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Originally posted by FRANKT:
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Originally posted by kimber1911: The metal appears to be smeared aft, which would seem to indicate the Destroyer was traveling faster than the cargo ship.
And when I look at the pictures of the Crystal on pages 3 and 5 I have to wonder why the haze gray paint that has been deposited on her hull is only on the back (aft) side of that collar where her anchor chain exits the hull. Weird.
It's possible what you're seeing there is the primer color of the freighter after it's finish color was stripped off.
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June 18, 2017, 10:52 AM
ulsterman
Hope the Navy allows the investigation find out what happened instead of drawing a conclusion and trying to make the investigation fit.
Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time, shortly before the time of the collision given by the U.S. Navy of approximately 2:20 a.m.
However, Nippon Yusen K.K . , the Japanese shipping company that operates the 728-foot-long ACX Crystal, has stated that the collision occurred around 1:30 a.m. That discrepancy hasn’t been resolved.
“She did not reverse the course before the collision. She did after the collision,” a Nippon Yusen company spokesman said.
On June 17, 2017, about 01:30 Japan Standard Time, ACX Crystal, a containership chartered by NYK collided with US Navy destroyer USS Fitzgerald at 20km off the coast of Shimoda, Shizuoka prefecture in Japan.
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good call Balze
when looking at the previous cargo ship tracks, 130 am local = 1630 UTC
For a 1630 UTC collision, tracking data indicates ACX Crystal was going 18.5 knts w course 68 deg at time of collision
Pretty solid article by WSJ -
I know not everyone has subscription, so please forgive for lengthy post, but here is transcript of article:
Deadly Collision Crushed Captain’s Cabin of USS Fitzgerald
YOKOSUKA, Japan—As most of its crew slept on Friday night, the USS Fitzgerald passed through one of Japan’s busiest shipping lanes just south of Tokyo, a watch crew assigned to guide its passage.
In a period of seconds, a 29,000 ton cargo ship loaded with containers plowed into its right side, crushing a large section of the destroyer’s main structure, including the captain’s cabin and sleeping quarters for 116 sailors below the waterline. Seawater flooded in through a large gash.
As the crew scrambled to save themselves and the ship, seven sailors didn’t make it out of the berthing area. Their bodies were recovered by divers a er the ship crawled to the port of Yokosuka.
“The water inflow was tremendous,” Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, head of the U.S. Seventh Fleet, said in a press briefing on Sunday. “There wasn’t a lot of time” for sailors to react.Badly injured, the captain, Bryce Benson, escaped from his cabin. He was airlifted to a nearby hospital where he was receiving emergency treatment on Sunday before being questioned.
“He’s lucky to be alive,” Vice Adm. Aucoin said.
The question of why a U.S. destroyer was rammed by a cargo ship over three times its size, one of the worst incidents in recent U.S. Navy history, has no immediate answers.
Some former military and commercial shipping captains speculate that the Fitzgerald may have failed to follow international regulations that require ships to give way to other vessels to their starboard, or right side.
“Unless the destroyer lost steering control, which is unlikely, it should have given right of way to the container ship,” said Yiannis Sgouras, a retired captain of tankers and cargo ships who worked in the world’s busiest trade route from Asia to Europe.
Others caution that there are potentially many other contributing factors to the collision. Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time, shortly before the time of the collision given by the U.S. Navy of approximately 2:20 a.m.
However, Nippon Yusen K.K., the Japanese shipping company that operates the 728- foot-long ACX Crystal, has stated that the collision occurred around 1:30 a.m. That discrepancy hasn’t been resolved.“She did not reverse the course before the collision. She did a er the collision,” a Nippon Yusen company spokesman said.
Both Japan and the U.S. are launching investigations, and each side declined to speculate about possible blame. The 20 Filipino crew members of the ACX Crystal, all of whom were unharmed, have been questioned, a spokesman for the Japan Coast Guard said.Around 400 vessels pass through the region where the collision took place, around 56 nautical miles southwest of Yokosuka, each day, according to the Japanese Coast Guard. O cial records show three accidents have been reported in the same area in the last five years.
Collisions at sea for the U.S. Navy are extremely uncommon, said Bryan McGrath, a former destroyer captain, who said they occur only once or twice a decade, if that. He said he couldn’t remember a recent collision that was this consequential.“There are 275 ships in the Navy and 100 are under way all over the world,” navigating “millions and millions of miles” every year, said Mr. McGrath, who retired in 2008 and is now a consultant. “This is very, very rare.”Yoji Koda, a retired vice admiral and former commander in chief of Japan’s navy, said that when U.S. Navy vessels are in the vicinity of Japan their alert level is the same as civilian vessels. He said one possibility was that either or both of the ships in the latest collision were using an autopilot system for guidance.
“Although they have watchmen, their responses tend to be delayed,” he said.
Vice Adm. Aucoin said all questions about the cause of the incident would require the results of the investigation, adding that the U.S. would work “hand-in-hand” with Japan.
Navy officials said they were working to inform family members of those killed, and had taken over 500 calls to a hotline for relatives to obtain information about the incident. One senior Navy o cial said all the crew of the ship were grieving.
Vice Adm. Aucoin said that despite the extensive damage to the Fitzgerald, a ship equipped with an advanced Aegis ballistic missile defense system, it would be restored to the U.S. 7th Fleet. That process could take up to a year, he said.
The repair process could cost around the same as the $250 million spent over 14 months on restoring the USS Cole, a similar ship to the Fitzgerald, which was heavily damaged by a terrorist bombing in Yemen in 2000.
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June 18, 2017, 11:39 AM
nhtagmember
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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
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Originally posted by nhtagmember: anyone else hear of anything that indicates that the container ship altered course, and did a u-turn to initiate a collision
I find it very unlikely that the collision was in any way intentional.
I am trying to find the website that has the paths of both vessels plotted out based on time and position - I was having coffee with some AF guys yesterday and they mentioned that it was an odd accident and there was some evidence of intentionally turning into the path of the destroyer
I will see if I can find it
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June 18, 2017, 12:09 PM
FRANKT
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Originally posted by 6guns:
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Originally posted by FRANKT:
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Originally posted by kimber1911: The metal appears to be smeared aft, which would seem to indicate the Destroyer was traveling faster than the cargo ship.
And when I look at the pictures of the Crystal on pages 3 and 5 I have to wonder why the haze gray paint that has been deposited on her hull is only on the back (aft) side of that collar where her anchor chain exits the hull. Weird.
It's possible what you're seeing there is the primer color of the freighter after it's finish color was stripped off.
Tomato. Tomahto. Whose wasn't my point.
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June 18, 2017, 12:31 PM
RHINOWSO
Listening to the VADM's interview, he mentions the majority of the damage is below the waterline and not visible.
