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I know there are quite a few of us on this board that work in healthcare. Have you noticed an increase in violence or aggressive behavior at work. I am credentialed at 11 different ER's in my area and I definitely feel that patients are absolutely becoming more outwardly violent towards staff. In every healthcare job I have worked the safety and security of the staff has been nothing more than an after thought. Often "security" guards are old men who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. When I worked in Pittsburgh it took five people being shot in the lobby of Western Pysch for the amdministration to finally put permanent armed officers in the psychiatric hospital. This week alone there has been a rash of incidents across the country. A disgruntled ex-doctor shoots 7 people in NYC, a nurse stabbed in Pittsburgh, and the Las Vegas shooting by one of our own members. Some of our facilities are standalone ER's which have no hospital attached. These are usually bare bones facilities with skeleton crews. One security guard for the entire complex. Recently at one of our standalones we have had nurses threatened and hit by drug seekers. One of my female colleagues walked out to her car at the end of a night shift to find a bullet hole in her fender. She had refused narcotics to several drug seekers that night and her car was the only vehicle parked in the physician parking area. Two weeks ago we had an enraged family member of a patient smash our ambulance bay doors and incapacitate them which became a patient safety issue.

I 100% feel that opiate abuse and the coddling of mental illness is to blame. For the longest time hospitals took on the "customer is always right" mind set and brushed off staff being assaulted as part of the job. Of course we aren't allowed to carry on property or even in the parking lot. States are starting to pass legislation for prescriber acountability and limiting Narcotic prescribing. Just this week new laws were passed in NC to that affect. The violence is only going to get worse when the millions of drug seekers out there are cut off.

So are he SF health care workers in other areas seeking an uptick in violence at your facilities?



This is from 2014 but a good read:

https://www.scientificamerican...s-plagues-hospitals/

Epidemic of Violence against Health Care Workers Plagues Hospitals

Hospital administrations and the judicial system do little to prevent assaults against nurses and other caregivers by patients

Roni Jacobson
In a harrowing video that surfaced last month, a 68-year-old hospital patient attacks a group of nurses with a pipe pulled from his bed. They flee through a nearby door in a streak of rainbow scrubs, but the patient pursues and lands several more blows on one fallen nurse in the hallway.

This assault is far from an isolated incident. Health-care workers are hit, kicked, scratched, bitten, spat on, threatened and harassed by patients with surprising regularity. In a 2014 survey, almost 80 percent of nurses reported being attacked on the job within the past year. Health-care workers experience the most nonfatal workplace violence compared to other professions by a wide margin, with attacks on them accounting for almost 70 percent of all nonfatal workplace assaults causing days away from work in the U.S., according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

And attacks show no sign of slowing down.

There is little movement toward stopping the assaults. “There is a top-to-bottom cultural assumption that violence is part of the job” for ER nurses and health-care workers, says Lisa Wolf, a registered nurse and research director for the Emergency Nurses Association. “It goes from the bedside up to the judicial system.”


Credit: Jen Christiansen
But organizations such as the ENA and the American Nurses Association as well as government agencies involved in occupational safety say this doesn’t have to be the case.

After the episode in Minnesota, the hospital initiated a training program to teach workers how to recognize and de-escalate potentially violent situations. Many hospitals lack this basic safety measure, however—an oversight that leaves caregivers vulnerable. Better violence-prevention plans—including training and incident reporting—can lessen the risk, but their adoption is stymied by indifference from police, prosecutors, judges and hospital administrations. The general disregard discourages health-care workers from reporting assaults, thus compounding the problem.

“As you get more and more distance from the epicenter of the problem in the ER, people really feel like their administrations are way less engaged in mitigating violence,” Wolf says. “It makes people less invested in the work that they do because they feel less supported.”

Nurses often have to get uncomfortably close with extremely stressed-out people, so an element of aggression is perhaps inevitable. Some assaults come from people experiencing psychosis or other mental crises. Dementia and in-home-care patients are also frequent sources. Much of the violence is less explainable, however. In the 2014 survey, almost 50 percent came from patients and family members who were drunk or on drugs. Plenty of people attack nurses out of simple frustration.

Rita Anderson, an Arizona-based nurse who was instrumental in passing New York State’s violence-against-nurses legislation, tried to bring charges after a girl in her late teens broke the nurse’s jaw. “When I spoke to her later in the evening, she said she was just tired of waiting,” Anderson says.

Police and prosecutors “don’t necessarily feel that this is a big issue unless someone is hurt very severely, even though there are felony laws against it,” she says. Her suit was eventually scuttled.

Nurses who have reported attacks say that acceptance of the violence runs through hospital administrations as well as the judicial system. An article, “Nothing Changes, Nobody Cares,” published this July in the Journal of Emergency Nursing, sums up the general sentiment among health-care workers who are attacked on the job. Wolf and colleagues interviewed 46 ER nurses who described sympathetic supervisors but passive hospital administrations. In a 2011 ENA survey, about half of nurses said that the hospital took no action after they were assaulted, and in another 20 percent of cases, the perpetrator was issued a warning. Ten percent of nurses said they were blamed for the incident.

Jeaux Rinehart, a registered nurse for more than 30 years, was working at Virginia Mason Medical Center in 2008 when a patient seeking methadone attacked him with a billy club, breaking his cheekbone. He says that hospitals tacitly discourage nurses from pressing charges, and describes two incidents in which colleagues were reprimanded for their assault. “There is a constant message being sent to nurses that they are responsible, that places the blame on nurses for their attack,” Rinehart says. “It comes from a lot of institutions.”

The lukewarm response from management deters workers from reporting incidents, further obscuring the issue. Studies suggest that more than half of physical assaults on nurses and up to 80 percent of verbal abuse goes unreported.

At the same time that nurses are blamed, hospitals do little to prepare them for what lies ahead. “We keep hearing the recurring theme that we aren’t getting any workplace-violence-prevention training in our nursing curriculum, we’re not learning it at our institutions,” says Daniel Hartley, an epidemiologist and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) coordinator for workplace-violence-prevention research. “There’s nothing worse than a novice nurse going into health care and not realizing that he or she will encounter physical and verbal abuse on the very first day on the job.”

Violence-prevention programs reduce the risk of assault by training workers to recognize frequent cues, such as drug use and threatening body language, and educating them about strategies to help defuse situations. Accurate incident reporting is a crucial part of this type of intervention, as it helps hospitals identify specific hazards, such as poor lighting, understaffing, and inadequate safety training, and take steps to remedy them.

In a 2011 ENA study on workplace violence, hospitals with mandatory reporting policies experienced half the rate of physical violence as hospitals without reporting policies. The Veterans Health Administration has successfully reduced assaults in its hospitals by electronically flagging high-risk offenders, such as people who have been abusing drugs and alcohol and those with a history of attacks on caregivers, who are then treated with extra precautions.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) issues guidelines for violence-prevention programs, but there is no federal statute requiring hospitals to adopt them. Several states have passed laws making it a felony to assault a health-care worker, but only a few have included provisions for violence-prevention training and incident reporting. Hospitals are generally left to monitor themselves.

Since the government doesn’t collect the statistics, it’s impossible to know exactly how many hospitals lack adequate safety protocols, but ENA surveys suggest that the number could be substantial. Some hospitals have comprehensive violence-prevention programs, but many nurses report that they receive minimal to no workplace-safety training and must learn on their feet when a situation turns violent.

Before his assault in 2008, Rinehart recalls one half-day training session about five years earlier on how to protect yourself in the event of an attack, “like how to get out of a choke hold,” but it lacked elements such as how to recognize and defuse aggression. “The prevention piece was completely missing,” he says.

NIOSH developed a free online training program that went live last year. Hartley reports that they’ve had more than 8,000 people complete the module so far, but individuals must seek out the training on their own time. NIOSH could not say whether any institutions have made the module part of their workplace-violence curriculum. They have done some hospital outreach, but it has mostly been “nursing associations bringing [the module] to management,” Hartley says.

And buy-in is still an issue.

When Anderson was working on the New York State Violence Against Nurses law in the 1990s, the state senator sponsoring the bill “recommended that we just get legislation passed that made it a felony to assault a nurse and didn’t require all kinds of education and training programs,” she says. “He said it would be very costly and make it harder to get the legislation passed,” and predicted opposition from hospitals. The New York law now requires institutional workplace-violence prevention, but only from public employers.

The cost of violence prevention is small, however, when compared to the amount that hospitals lose in worker-compensation lawsuits every year and in time off due to injury—roughly a third of which is patient-inflicted, according to OSHA statistics.

“There needs to be a cultural change that it’s not okay to hit a nurse,” Wolf says. “Until then, any intervention that is attempted is unlikely to be accepted.”


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Posts: 13190 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know if there is an increase in violence, or just a perception of an increase, but I can tell you that violence or aggressive behavior toward healthcare workers have been around a long time. I used to work in ER many years ago, and I was chased, kicked at, and threatened by pts. A clinic doctor got beat up by a patient seeking drugs and not getting it. A med student died after being pushed by a mental patient through a vent shaft....


Q






 
Posts: 28237 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by 12131:
I don't know if there is an increase in violence, or just a perception of an increase, but I can tell you that violence or aggressive behavior toward healthcare workers have been around a long time. I used to work in ER many years ago, and I was chased, kicked at, and threatened by pts. A clinic doctor got beat up by a patient seeking drugs and not getting it. A med student died after being pushed by a mental patient through a vent shaft....


You always heard about craziness in the bigger inner city hospitals but now I feel like it's becoming more common place in smaller rural and suburban facilities. The opiate addiction crowd is ruining it for the rest of us. A couple months back we had a guy come in OD'd and I gave him Narcan. As soon as he woke up he started punching and kicking people. He basically woke up fighting and ran out. Honestly all these guys falling out for using heroin with fentanyl ain't breaking my heart.


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Posts: 13190 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ever wrestle someone on PCP? Had to restrain many in my day when I was working. Nothing new here. And the Hospitals in my and surrounding communities hire off duty police or sheriff deputies in uniform to help with the nut cases. Whether they be just nuts or drug induced types.
 
Posts: 4467 | Location: White City, Florida | Registered: January 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's definitely not just ER's. My ex wife is an internist and when she was in private practice (she's a hospitalist now) in a very rural small town she had to call the police several times to have patients escorted out. They would come in demanding narcotics or get belligerent when told they couldn't get a refill. She had to have a couple of restraining orders issued as well.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know I hate, absolutely hate going to the ER. I know I'm going to be spending a fortune. I'm worried I may catch a disease when I go in there. I've been to some nasty ER and urgent care places. They also smell bad, I can't describe the smell, maybe infection mixed with sanitizer?

That fun isn't just on the day of the visit. Then comes the anticipation for how many bills you will receive, will it be one, two, or three? Did I draw the luck of being treated by the only non network doctor in the whole facility, or the one doctor who's enrollment paperwork for my insurer got lost in the mail (both have happened to me). The anticipation of how the hospital and my insurance company is going to team up to fuck me over is unnerving. I wish I could walk in the door and be told exactly how much 11 stitches, a shot of novacane, some antibiotics/antiseptics, and gauze will cost. If I'm not in the process of bleeding out I may want to call/visit a few hospitals and choose either the cleanest or cheapest, or if the information was actually available to me the most competent.

Most if not all of my frustrations come from insurance companies and billing, but it wouldn't hurt to hire more friendly staff and keep the place a bit more sanitary.

As much as I despise going to ER, I have no choice 99.9% of the time and I would never get violent with the people I'm trusting to save me.



Jesse

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Posts: 21346 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Fla. Jim:
Ever wrestle someone on PCP? Had to restrain many in my day when I was working. Nothing new here. And the Hospitals in my and surrounding communities hire off duty police or sheriff deputies in uniform to help with the nut cases. Whether they be just nuts or drug induced types.


I wish our hospitals did the same. Usually we are on our own as the security guards are generally worthless. We have one guy that is good and used to be a prison guard but he only works once in a while. The nurses are much more vulnerable then the providers since they spend much more time up close and personal with the patients.


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Posts: 13190 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Skins2881:
I know I hate, absolutely hate going to the ER. I know I'm going to be spending a fortune. I'm worried I may catch a disease when I go in there. I've been to some nasty ER and urgent care places. They also smell bad, I can't describe the smell, maybe infection mixed with sanitizer?

That fun isn't just on the day of the visit. Then comes the anticipation for how many bills you will receive, will it be one, two, or three? Did I draw the luck of being treated by the only non network doctor in the whole facility, or the one doctor who's enrollment paperwork for my insurer got lost in the mail (both have happened to me). The anticipation of how the hospital and my insurance company is going to team up to fuck me over is unnerving. I wish I could walk in the door and be told exactly how much 11 stitches, a shot of novacane, some antibiotics/antiseptics, and gauze will cost. If I'm not in the process of bleeding out I may want to call/visit a few hospitals and choose either the cleanest or cheapest, or if the information was actually available to me the most competent.

Most if not all of my frustrations come from insurance companies and billing, but it wouldn't hurt to hire more friendly staff and keep the place a bit more sanitary.

As much as I despise going to ER, I have no choice 99.9% of the time and I would never get violent with the people I'm trusting to save me.


Maybe I should start a concierge ER service. I will charge you $100 for 11 stitches out the door...subcuticular sutures are extra Big Grin


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Posts: 13190 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Dusty78- I didn't hear about one of our members getting hurt, in Vegas.
If it's not already out there, maybe contact me by email and let me know who?
I'd like to check in with them.

Working in ER's, I've been assaulted more times than I care to count. Last time, it was a naked schizophrenic who was trying to run out of the ER. I got punched (really nice shiner), another nurse got punched. We subdued him and got him back to his room, undamaged. Not even our patient!

For my trouble, I got a breathalyzer, urine drug screen, and a bill from my own ER for the doctor checking to make sure I didn't have a fractured eye socket.

Good times.

Bruce






"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams

“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
 
Posts: 4253 | Location: AK-49 | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RNshooter:
...and a bill from my own ER for the doctor checking to make sure I didn't have a fractured eye socket.


You mean workman's comp didn't pay for this "injury check" while on the clock?




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Posts: 3820 | Location: Idaho | Registered: January 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had a fella pull a knife and try to stab me in the back of our helicopter one night. We'd been dispatched to pick him up for a possible MI. A dose of sux remedied that situation, but it was a bit unnerving to be in an extremely small space at around 5000ft with a guy trying to stab you.

I worked with an ER doc years ago who used to bring a box of Ritz crackers to work with him every night and set under the counter, but nobody ever saw him eating any. Finally, one of the nurses asked him, "Jack, you always bring that box of crackers in, why don't you ever eat any?". Jack just smiled that wry smile of his and said, "Look and see." He kept a 44mag stowed in that box.

It's not a new phenomenon, and while there likely is an uptick, I think we just hear about it more these days.

Our little CAH is going through some growing pains on this issue now. This is a town where you never needed to lock anything up. You left your doors open at night, cars unlocked with the windows down while you ran into the grocery store, that type of thing. With the increase of drug use and abuse, they times they are a changing though. We had our local pharmacy broken into not long ago and loads of narcs stolen. Mind you, this is a little town that you could drive a golf ball from end to end. Pretty ballsy to rob the pharmacy on the main street.

Just last month at med staff we were discussing locking the ER doors at night. Having been through this at several facilities over the years, I suggested that a motivated person will get through locked sliding glass doors like they weren't even there, and that the best solution is an armed guard. The bean counters don't want to pay for that, so the ER is a sitting duck for any bad guy who wants whatever they want. Someone else chimed in that the drugs are all locked up. I asked, "would you open the Pyxis with a gun to your head?"


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Posts: 21021 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think there are two distinct reasons for this. The first is the fact that the mental health system in this country isn't broken, it is non-existent. The cops can't do anything with them on the street in most cases because there are no teeth in the law to hold them. So, they wind up in the ER.

The second is the rampant "I'm ok, you're ok, it is just a substance abuse problem" that our nation has become. These people wind up in the ER for various reasons to include drug seeking behavior.

And really, there's a third. Homelessness. I think it links directly to points one and two. I think there is a direct link between mental illness and homelessness. I think if the country did a better job with mental health services (IE- that drug didn't work, here take this one), the level of homelessness and homeless related problems/violence would drop off.

My opinion only as a beat cop and I have nothing to back any of it up other than 22 years street experience.




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Posts: 37318 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
...and a bill from my own ER for the doctor checking to make sure I didn't have a fractured eye socket.


You mean workman's comp didn't pay for this "injury check" while on the clock?


Oh, they did. I took the bill, wrote "Handle this" on it and dropped it in my manager's inbox.
I almost wrote more than that...


Bruce






"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams

“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
 
Posts: 4253 | Location: AK-49 | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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subcuticular sutures are extra


Smile

1. Societal breakdown. ME! ME! ME!

2. Opiates.

3. Costs and tension over healthcare. I don't recall seeing as much of this when the insurance market was a private sector endeavor. Seems the ACA has engendered an entitled mentality.

Glad to be gone.

RMD




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Posts: 20428 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In all fairness, I don't think it is against "healthcare workers". It is against "anyone who happens to be around" when a druggy goes berserk.

And because they have been taken to hospitals, it ends up being healthcare workers.

But maybe I am wrong. After all, healthcare workers are representatives of "the greedy healthcare industry". That has the sochul juffdiss worriers all amped up!


"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
 
Posts: 6641 | Registered: September 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Crom:
In all fairness, I don't think it is against "healthcare workers". It is against "anyone who happens to be around" when a druggy goes berserk.

And because they have been taken to hospitals, it ends up being healthcare workers.

But maybe I am wrong. After all, healthcare workers are representatives of "the greedy healthcare industry". That has the sochul juffdiss worriers all amped up!


Some truth to this. Pharmacists face break-ins and armed robbery or strong-arm robbery. Happens all the time. Put an obstacle inbetween a junkie and his drugs he will go around, through, over, under it with no regard for damage/causalities caused.



Jesse

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Posts: 21346 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would add in another factor: I believe that the entire The rules don’t matter, the laws don’t matter, the people in authority don’t matter attitude is spreading rapidly. It’s still most obvious on the college campuses and in the riots whenever the Thug of the Month™ gets killed by the police defending themselves, but it’s the sort of thing that easily morphs into, “What do you mean, ‘No, you can’t have any more narcotics’?”

I don’t believe it’s an exaggeration to say it’s just one more legacy of the past Administration and its “Of course they’re going to riot; they have grievances.” It didn’t start there, but I’m convinced that that gave it some momentum. We’re slouching toward becoming a Third World country and the slope is getting steeper.




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— Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 47975 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's been going on a long time, back in the 70's a pharmacist friend of mine ended up,shooting 2 guys (2 separate occasions) who were trying to get drugs. One night I had a little drunk come in the pharmacy with a prescription for a pretty strong pain reliever from a doctor known for supplying the local druggies. I refused to fill the Rx because combined with the alcohol he could stop breathing. He left, we shut down for the night, on my way to my truck here comes the little drunk (about 120 soaking wet) only he is now drunker and carrying a tire iron. He staggers up to me and declares "you are going to fill my damn Rx". Then he raised the tire iron over his head to take a swing which put him off balance so I punched him hard on the chin and he went out like a light. I got in my truck and headed home, I got to thinking about the store manager who was going to walk out and find him so I stopped and called and asked if the guy was still laying in the parking lot, got a negative and said good night. The next time that I worked with that manager I had a bunch of explaining to do.
 
Posts: 1833 | Location: central Alabama | Registered: July 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Dusty78:

Maybe I should start a concierge ER service. I will charge you $100 for 11 stitches out the door...subcuticular sutures are extra Big Grin


If he went to an ER and got 11 stitches the bill would be a hole lot more that that... You need to up your game!


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Posts: 6540 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by smlsig:
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:

Maybe I should start a concierge ER service. I will charge you $100 for 11 stitches out the door...subcuticular sutures are extra Big Grin


If he went to an ER and got 11 stitches the bill would be a hole lot more that that... You need to up your game!


I know that's the point. I can steal all their business! Cash only. $100 for 20 min of work ain't bad. I can run it out of an old conversion van to keep the overhead low. Sterility might become an issue but what the hey! Wink


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