Context:

This box is in my garage where the air handler/heater is (actually on the other side of the wall directly behind the box). The house was built with a heat pump style heater that ran off 220v.

A couple years ago we put in a new HVAC and switched to a NG furnace. I believe they repurposed half the 220 line to run the furnace, resulting in what you see here.

Now, I’d like to get rid of this ugly box taking up space and, if possible, gain a 220v circuit. Failing that (assuming they did take half the 220 to run the furnace) can I finagle a 30amp 110 circuit to run power tools and the welder (it will run on 110).

And even if I can’t come up with either the 220 or the 30amp 110, I’d still like to clean it up.

I’m comfortable working on wiring, assuming I can fully understand what I’m looking at. I just need some help there and then I can decide if I’m going to do it or hire it out. Also including a picture of the breaker panel. Everything we use operates just like you see. The outlet for the range is off as we went NG there as well.

You had a three wire 240v circuit previously. It's hard to tell what time seeing in the picture because of wire color, but it appears they bugged the wiring for disconnect and relocated disconnect to other side of the wall.

You can't use this for anything other than a 20a 120v circuit or the previous setup. You will need additional wiring ran. Also the neutral should be identified (white electric tape) at both the splice point and electrical panel and make sure the splices are not cu/al or they use a cu/al listed splice. Lastly consider replacing your electrical panel at some point.

I’ll probably just leave it alone then. How much work is it to just remove the large box and relocate the splice in the wall itself?

Why the suggestion for a new panel? Just showing its age? Build date was 1984, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc
Why the suggestion for a new panel?

Because it is a Zinsco brand panel.

Google it and you will see a bunch of issues with it. I had dead batteries in my circuit tracer one day and was just trying to dead short the wire to find the breaker. Gave up and just turned them all off!

quote:

Originally posted by motoboy:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc
Why the suggestion for a new panel?

Because it is a Zinsco brand panel.

Google it and you will see a bunch of issues with it. I had dead batteries in my circuit tracer one day and was just trying to dead short the wire to find the breaker. Gave up and just turned them all off!

Well that was some fun reading. What’s a ballpark cost to have a pro replace it?

I wonder who did that originally? The range shouldn't be on two individual 40A breakers. There should be a crossbar like on the A/C double breaker.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by motoboy:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc
Why the suggestion for a new panel?

Because it is a Zinsco brand panel.

Google it and you will see a bunch of issues with it. I had dead batteries in my circuit tracer one day and was just trying to dead short the wire to find the breaker. Gave up and just turned them all off!

Well that was some fun reading. What’s a ballpark cost to have a pro replace it?

It's all going to depend on the variables. Is you house already properly grounded and/or bonded? If not will drywall work be needed to run ground to your water service. Does your meter can or service drop need to be replaced? Do you need new ground rods?

The vast majority in my area (extremely high priced) are between $1,600-$4k with the peak of the bell curve around $2,800-$3,300. Some can exceed $4k, but rare. Then there's drywall and paint if the panel and path to home water service is not in an unfinished area.

I'd say budget $2,500 and expect deviation of +/- $1k. Plus any paint/drywall work, or other alterations needed to provide proper access and working space around the panel.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
How much work is it to just remove the large box and relocate the splice in the wall itself?

I'm no expert, but I do not believe there's a code-compliant way to do that.

I believe all connections must be in approved boxes and said boxes may not be buried in walls?

quote:

Originally posted by motoboy:
I had dead batteries in my circuit tracer one day and was just trying to dead short the wire to find the breaker. Gave up and just turned them all off!

Wait... you dead-shorted an outlet in order to trip the breaker and it didn't trip?!?!

(Is that a legitimate way to identify circuits?)

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
How much work is it to just remove the large box and relocate the splice in the wall itself?

I'm no expert, but I do not believe there's a code-compliant way to do that.

I believe all connections must be in approved boxes and said boxes may not be buried in walls?

Could I put them in a smaller box then? That old box is huge. Is it likely to be wire nuts under the tape? If so it seems it would be very easy to shut down the circuit, mark the wires, disconnect them, remove the box, and then put it all back in a smaller box…

Or is that a terrible idea?

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
Could I put them in a smaller box then?

Providing you don't over-stuff it: I don't see why not.

N.B.:

quote:

NEC 2005 300.14:

At least 6 inches of free conductor measured from the point the cable enters the box shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of fixtures or devices.

Were the opening (of the box) is less than 8 inches in any direction (most boxes in common use), each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 3 inches outside the opening.

(Copied and pasted from a post elsewhere on the 'net.)

Keep this in mind when sizing said box--particularly if it's 12 or 10 ga. wire.

Furthermore: If you use a metal box, it must be bonded to the ground wire.

Since the electric box has a bad history, I would suggest hiring an electrician. Square D is a good brand.

If you never plan on having an electric range again, I would think that the electrician could use the 40A double breaker for a welder. He would then put a 220V outlet where you need it. Check to see what your machine needs. I use a 50A for my Miller 251MIG.