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Why don’t you fix your little problem and light this candle |
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG Thanks for posting this, I cant believe I didnt know about it. coolest thing since the 'Atomic Bomb Movie' LINK to coolest movie ever. This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. -Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Joshua Painter Played by Senator Fred Thompson | |||
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Peace through superior firepower |
Fascinating video. We take high speed cameras for granted these days. Not so, back when this was filmed. | |||
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I run trains! |
Was just going to post how terrifying #64 looks. Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view. Complacency sucks… | |||
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Why don’t you fix your little problem and light this candle |
I remember reading why they would shoot smoke rockets up moments before the explosion or 'test' . It was so they could measure speed and distance of the blast. This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. -Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Joshua Painter Played by Senator Fred Thompson | |||
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I have lived the greatest adventure |
Truly amazing. Thanks for posting! Phone's ringing, Dude. | |||
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Political Cynic |
there was also a series of still photographs that I think were done by Harold Edgerton from MIT (I remember seeing the photos on the walls) that were done within millionths of seconds after detonation that showed the shape of the expanding sphere those were truly awesome photos given the technology of the time - they may have been frames from high speed cameras set up at the Nevada Test Site. [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
Beam that link all over North Korea. "You want some of this??" | |||
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Member |
Several years ago, I stumbled across some declassified nuclear videos, numbered 1 to 72. I resolved to watch every one, even though there were many hours of content in all of these videos. I became frustrated trying to find the particular video I wanted, so I wrote a document for myself as I watched these videos so I could find them later. Since there's some interest in this stuff here, I'll post the self-guide I wrote, with links to all of those videos. US Nuclear Testing The US has conducted over 1,000 nuclear tests detonating over 1,100 devices (some tests involved simultaneous detonations). A full list of those tests, with further links to test details for each test series can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...of_the_United_States After 1962, atmospheric testing ended due to fallout hazard concerns and treaty obligations. Testing went totally underground and details of later tests are generally not available. All US testing involving an actual nuclear detonation ended in 1992 in compliance with the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Declassified Nuclear Test Films 72 numbered videos were declassified through the 1990’s and have been available on youtube.com for the last 10 years or so. They are predictably numbered 1 through 72. Numerous unnumbered videos are available as well. Some of these unnumbered videos are complete declassified government videos while others appear to be videos cut and pasted together from other released videos. 01. Trinity test, July 1945. Alamogordo, NM. First nuclear test of a device commonly called “the gadget”. Gadget was essentially a test of the Fat Man bomb, a PU239 implosion device, dropped on Nagasaki in 1945, effectively ending WWII. The design of the U235 Little Boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima was so simple scientists were completely certain it would detonate, so they didn’t test it. The fact that Little Boy consumed the entire Manhattan Project output of weapons grade U235 and they didn’t have enough U235 to build a second Little Boy device likely also influenced the decision not to test. The Fat Man PU239 implosion bomb was far more complicated than Little Boy and required proof of concept testing. 11 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_MHC7ceWs 02. Operation Crossroads. 1946. 41 minutes. First post-WWII nuclear tests. Pacific test range, Bikini. 3 shots planned, 2 shots fired of Fat Man type weapons, 21 kt. Third shot cancelled when toxic PU239 was detected in the admiral's personal quarters aboard his command ship which was never closer than 300 miles to shots 1 and 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tjj2pq7FiE Operation Sandstone. April & May 1948. Pacific, Eneweatak. Tests of oralloy and levitated cores, all of which helped make nukes smaller, more efficient and reduced the mass of PU239 required to make the bomb go bang. 3 shots. 18 to 49 kt 03. Op Sandstone. 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOs3Qx09ZI0 04. Op Sandstone. 16 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vTBhw5jW8A 05. Op Sandstone. 30 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE-ljh7MkDE 06. Op Sandstone. Site prep. 19 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA2o3ZhGgUs 07. Op Sandstone. Blast measurement. 18 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yunj-XUG908 08. Op Sandstone. Navy contribution. 41 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCbeKK_NHDk Operation Ranger, Jan-Feb 1951 First tests at Nevada Test Range. 5 shots, 1 to 22 kt. Tests of smaller bomb designs. No numbered Ranger videos were declassified, but this 1 hour, 16 minute video covers Ranger and Buster Jangle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2v15kG9hos Operation Greenhouse. April & May 1951. Pacific, Enewetak. Bomb effects and weapon development, fusion boosted fission tests. Shot Greenhouse George was the first fusion boosted nuclear device and proved the feasibility of thermonuclear (hydrogen) bombs of enormous yield. A crash program to develop and deploy such weapons immediately followed. 4 shots. 45 to 225 kt 09. Op Greenhouse. Overall preparations. 22 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iswb7hjubYs Another Greenhouse video not numbered in this series can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9zg8nFjiw0 1 hour, 19 minutes. Operation Buster-Jangle. October & November 1951 Nevada Test Range. Weapons effects & troop movements seconds after nukes were detonated. 7 shots. Fizzle to 31 kt. 10. Buster-Jangle. Bomb effects on materials & structures. 1 hour, 16 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zJ5ik5Na60 Operation Tumbler-Snapper, Nevada, Apr to Jun 1952. 8 shots, 1 to 31 kt. 11. Tumbler-Snapper. 1952. 47 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC5l3s1wcuw Operation Ivy. November 1952. Pacific Test Range, Enewetak. 2 shots, 500 kt to 10 mt. 12. Ivy Mike was the first full power test of a thermonuclear (hydrogen) device, detonated on Nov 1, 1952. It had a yield of 10.2 to 12 megatons, about 1000 times the yield of Little Boy. The hydrogen used for fusion was liquid deuterium, a form of hydrogen with an extra neutron, cooled to near absolute zero. Roughly the size of a 2 story office building filled with cooling and other equipment, Mike was not a practical weapon, but more of a science experiment to test the thermonuclear principles developed by Edward Teller and Stansilaw Ulam. The second shot of the test series, Ivy King, was the largest pure fission device at 500 kt. King was part of the effort to try to find the maximum yield possible for a pure fission weapon, in case Mike didn’t work. 1 hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3y63gKGwA Operation Castle, 1954. One of the most significant nuclear tests conducted by the US. All shots were detonated in the Pacific test range, and scheduled to use Bikini but some shots were fired at Enewetak when Bikini became contaminated with fallout from early Castle tests which were FAR more powerful than expected. Castle fusion devices used Lithium deuteride (lithium compounded with deuterium) instead of cryogenic liquid deuterium, which was difficult and dangerous to handle. Lithium deuteride is stable and solid (dry) at room temperature. Scientists expected molecules with Lithium 6 would react in a specific manner and contribute greatly to explosive yield, and Li6 did behave exactly as predicted. Scientists knew that molecules comprised of Lithium 7 would not react in the same way and were mistakenly expected to be inert. Through a then unknown reaction, Li7 turned out to be as good or better a source of energy as was Li6 resulting in the first shot, Castle Bravo having actual yield 2 to 3 or more times higher than predicted. The Bravo blast totally vaporized the test and measurement instruments before any measurements could be recorded and inflicted great damage on the permanent infrastructure on Enu Island located over 20 miles from the Bravo shot site. 13. Op Castle March 1954. Pacific. First dry thermonuclear shots. Shot Bravo’s expected 3-5 mt yield, was actually 13 to 23 mt. Bravo instantly created a fireball over 4.5 miles in diameter, vaporized the island on which it was detonated and left a crater on the floor of the lagoon over a mile in diameter. Lethal levels of fallout fell on a 7,000 square mile area of the Pacific. Hundreds of natives on nearby islands as well as US personnel who thought they were safe on those islands, became exposed to dangerously high radiation levels. The crew of the Japanese fishing vessel Lucky Dragon #5, which had wandered undetected into the test area, were also exposed resulting in one nearly immediate fatality and long term medical problems for the rest of the crew. Not so lucky after all. The Castle Bravo test, at an estimated 15 MT, is the largest known nuclear detonation the US ever conducted. The US eventually deployed weapons with higher yields including the MK-41, a 25 MT device in the US arsenal from 1961 to 1976. The MK-41 (later renamed B-41) was never tested at full power. The Soviet Union fired 4 devices larger than Bravo including one referred to as Czar Bomba. Czar Bomba, believed to be a 100 MT device, was tested in an air drop only once at ½ power because the Soviets didn’t have a plane that could fly high enough or fast enough to escape destruction by the bomb it had just dropped. This video is 20 minutes in length. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dENGxFil-bQ Another declassified video, not numbered in this series, also addresses Operation Castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti9xmuW6QiM 14. Undated weapons effects tests. No sound. 17 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmYUf8uxgac Operation Upshot-Knothole, 1953, Nevada Test Range. 11 shots. This test series actually pre-dates Operation Castle above, but the declassified videos have later numbers. Tests included more boosted fusion experiments and one shot, code named Harry (often nicknamed Dirty Harry), that inadvertently contaminated a large part of the test area as well as places well outside of the test area with toxic fallout. The town of St George, UT, about 130 miles from the Harry test site, has a cancer incidence and mortality rate many times higher than the national average. It is widely believed that the entire cast and crew of the John Wayne movie The Conqueror, filmed near St George a year or two after the tests, inhaled or ingested enough toxic/cancer causing dust to induce fatal cancers years later. Over the next two decades, a disturbing number of the cast and crew lost their lives to cancer, including John Wayne himself (stomach and lung cancer). Cast cancer mortality is far higher than the national average. While impossible to conclusively prove, the cancer connection with this nuclear test series remains unresolved and very controversial. 15. Upshot-Knothole. 1953. 35 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acCSuBgewJk 16. Upshot-Knothole. 1953. 19 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJntPheYLY Operation Teapot Weapons effects tests, development of military tactics on the nuclear battlefield. Spring 1955. 14 shots, 1kt to 43 kt. 17. Op Teapot. 31 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLzw-Jl9C5Q 18. Operation WigWam. May 14, 1955. Single shot test of a 30 kt depth charge at 2000 ft. 3 submerged targets. 1 destroyed in first milliseconds. Second survived blast, but sank before it could be recovered. Test was intended to assess the vulnerability of submarines and surface ships to underwater nuclear explosions. 36 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB1I7ih1AjQ Operation Redwing. 17 shots, May to July 1956. Small 1 kt to 5 mt. Used both Pacific test ranges. Very likely that some of these shots were intentionally detonated at much less than full nominal yield to prevent the kind of excessive blast and fallout problems experienced with Operation Castle. Test milestones include the first airdrop of a deployable thermonuclear device (shot Cherokee) and the first tests of a three stage device (shots Zuni and Tewa). Also notable, through a navigational error shot Cherokee was detonated in front of troops who had been arranged so that the shot would detonate behind them to protect their eyes. Oops! 19. Redwing. 26 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0igtd7kMgLA 20. Redwing. Weapons effects. Summary report. 31 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRSkvFijDrM Operation Plumbbob May 28 to Oct 7, 1957. 29 shots in Nevada Test Range. Fizzles to 74 kt. First use of balloon shots (9). First use of fully contained underground shot (Ranier). Fired a live Genie nuclear air to air missile. 21. Plumbbob. 21 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_T7Xjf_iOE 22. Plumbbob. Military effects. 32 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEvxSqrtQt4 Operation Hardtack. April to Oct 1958. 72 shots in both Pacific & Nevada Test Ranges. 23. Hardtack. Basic weapons effects. 26 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-jCvmye6MA 24. Hardtack. Military effects. Hi altitude shots. 25 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD2zLB_4Ce8 25. Hardtack. Underwater tests. Wahoo & Umbrella. The Umbrella video is particularly spectacular as an underwater nuke blasts up a wall of water hundreds of feet into the air, completely enveloping a full size, WWII era Liberty ship. 19 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ALS1dofmk 26. Hardtack. Sub kiloton effects. No sound. 24 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asKtfpjdQyA 27. Operation Argus. DARPA managed. 2 high altitude shots to examine electro-magmetic pulse effects. 45 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZu7et1dZlA 28. Vela Uniform. 1961 and 1962. DARPA project. Long range detection of nuke explosions. Seismograph and ground motion results. Part of Ops Nougat & Dome. 22 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6TbIw2Ahl8 29. Operation Dominic fireballs. 1962. No sound. 44 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQS6bxey9sU 30. Project Sedan. 1962. 100 kt excavation shot. Part of Plowshare. 8 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1o38Yo5OhY 31. SADM detonations. SADM = Special Atomic Demolition Munition, sometimes called a “suitcase nuke”. Delivery by swimmer/paratrooper. 10 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf6uX0hODuE 32. Operation Sunbeam. 1962. Davy Crockett fired from recoiless rifle. 18 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_q8q6Z9_I 33. Operations Doorstep and Cue. Civil Defense films. 26 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2-8f-V5sFY 34. Operation Nougat, shot Gnome. Intro by Dr Edward Teller. Plowshare experiment. Use of nukes for civil engineering. Shot was done in a salt dome in Carlsbad, NM. 29 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFJ2MyWlXgs Operation Plowshare A series of tests, generally embedded in other test series, intended to evaluate the feasibility of using nuclear devices for construction and mining purposes. Fallout concerns ultimately doomed this line of inquiry. 35. Plowshare. 1968, 1973. Excavating with Nuclear Explosives. 37 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGXS_Qgfqno 36. Plowshare. Project Rukison, 1969. Natural gas recovery. 7.5 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myXswNUQgLs 37. Operation Warm Coat. 1968. Alaska detonation. This video focuses on the transplantation of sea otters from Aleutions Amchitka Island to other locations using C130's returning empty from inbound supply runs to the AEC site. 14 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jbz_zD00hk 38. Amchitka Project. Oct 2, 1969 detonation. 3 detonations were made on Amchitka Island. 24 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1XFHSKXLDk 39. Project Longshot 1965. Amchitka shot of 80 kt. Video details geologic conditions. Primary objective was to obtain seismic info from a blast. Created equivalent of 6.0 earthquake. 13 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHSPqw8NdG4 40. Milrow shot, Amchitka. 1 mt. 1969. 28 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77CqV0a9vek 41. Project Cannikin. Amchitka. Nov 6, 1971. Spartan missile warhead test. 5 mt. Spartan was the nuclear warhead of the US Safeguard anti missile defense system. 14 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmFy4NdA8s 42. Atomic Blasts. Greenhouse through Upshot-Knothole. 1951 through 1953. No sound. 28 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pu_ZUl9YDM 43. 1962 Pacific tests. In the Frigate Bird test, the Polaris ballistic missile submarine USS Ethan Allen launched a nuclear, submarine launched ballistic missile, WITH live nuclear warhead. Christmas Island area. Also a live nuclear ASROC test (Anti-Submarine Rocket). 21 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5orHjD5FWc8 44. 1963 ASROC system overview and training film. 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr2BIpXAkLI 45. Talos missile handling and fire tests. Talos was a conventional/nuclear SSM and SAM installed on navy surface ships of the era. 13 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwmbHW-7E1k 46. Several shots. ASROC test footage. Op Sailor Hat - Naval ship effects tests from a nearby nuke surface burst. Mk 45 nuclear torpedo. SUBROC. Long range sub launched anti-submarine weapon. 18 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJEE7rv5M_E 47. US Navy training film. Nuke Delivery by Light Carrier Aircraft - A4D Skyhawk. Planning & delivery methods. 17 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMEA2_Caa94 48. Nuclear Effects at Sea, 1976 training film. Good overview of weapons effects. 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdD2Aub7Z9Q 49. Talos training film. Handling Cruiser Installation. 12 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgFIhomusc8 50. US Navy training film, 1962. Range and depth controls for Mk 45 nuke torpedo. 12 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKOEaPHxY5k 51. Air Force video. Nuke delivery aircraft. Mid to late 1950's. B-29, B-50, B-36, B-52 others. 16 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_AQH2yMd5E 52. Guided Nuclear Missiles, 1955. Honest John, Corporal, Regulus, Matador, Snark, Rascal. 11 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RuBlgm7GM 53. Defense Nuclear Agency training film. Meeting the terrorist threat. Undated, but declassified in 1997. 8 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LFx7OCSFY 54. Hybla Fair. Nevada Test Site. Use of small nukes to create radiated test chamber. Apparently a test of "space" environment. The test revealed the technique was unsuitable for radiation tests with very small nukes. 13 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlaptX1C4UM 55. Civil Defense film: Let's Face It. Public exhortation to follow civil defense guidelines. Doubt this undated film was ever classified. 13 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA8z94MXo9M 56. Enewetak Cleanup. No date, but likely post 1975. 45 nuclear blasts took place on Enewetak, resulting in significant toxic/cancer causing fallout. Radiation levels decline rapidly after a detonation, but toxic and cancer inducing fallout can remain essentially forever. 12.5 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd5ETxsWsiE 57. Operation Hardtack excerpts, 1953. Silent. 16.5 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlGRbTuc840 58. USN training film, 1963. Mk 43 & 57 nuclear bombs. Handling & storage on aircraft carrier. A-4 Skyhawk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH7T2dvcUmM 59. US Army training film, 1963. Technical proficiency inspections. 23 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozlemSoKZJg 60. Desert Rock. 1951. Large troop exercise conducted near atomic detonation intended to dispel “myths” about the safety of troops operating in close proximity to nuclear blasts. 28 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7mZfmhMKik 61. Operation Dominic 1962. Last US atmospheric tests. Mostly air drops from B-52 bombers, but also some high altitude rocket shots. 26 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMlKgzUuiLo 62. Starfish Prime and related hi altitude shots trying to determine of such high altitude nuclear explosions were capable of stopping or disabling incoming enemy ballistic missiles. 1.45 mt shot. 1 hour, 9 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZoic9vg1fw 63. Operation Fishbowl, 1962. Hi altitude weapons effects. 28 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQYK8FfvGw 64. Operation Dominic overview. Christmas Island shots. 1962. 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LImCQZ6z2RY 65. Operation Dominic, Johnston Island shots, 1962. 19 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFYmcwNr_hs 66. Hi Altitude weapon effects, Part 1. 20 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdrirktDT2Y 67. Hi Altitude weapon effects, Part 2. Systems interference. 16 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6eLPLR_WPs 68. Atomic Weapons Orientation, Part 3. 1961 and 1965 (two films, one color, one B & W). 23 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5hcWL4IuoM 69. Special Weapons Orientation, Part 4. Early atomic weapons family. Mk 4 through Mk 9. 18 mnutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKARoGG60y8 70. Atomic Weapons Orientation, Part 5. Weapons effects. Part 6 - Thermonuclear weapons available as of May 1, 1956. 44 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9nwr4FtKaQ 71. Tonopah Test Range overview, 1964. 12 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC5CZbrHlqM 72. Developing & Producing the B-61. The B-61 is one of the two current nuclear gravity bombs in the US arsenal. The B-61 can be deployed by nearly all fixed wing tactical and strategic aircraft flown by the USAF, USN and USMC. The B-61 has a nominal maximum yield of about 340 kilotons (about 28 times the explosive yield of the Little Boy and Fat Man bombs that ended WWII). 26 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlH7OuWiPb4 | |||
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Fire begets Fire |
My father (and many of his friends) used to build those things. Growing up I never really fully appreciated nor understood what he did for a living. Never got to go visit dad at work for the day. As an adult I have piece the story together as much as I can/am able. "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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"Member" |
Can you imagine how many fish they killed with those underwater tests? This reminded me of reading the story by Jack Lewis years ago (the co-founder and editor of Gun World magazine), about waking up shipboard, seriously hung over, and looking out a porthole and seeing orange destroyers and other ships going by and thinking he was still drunk or losing his mind. (ships headed to nuclear tests that they of course knew nothing about) _____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911. | |||
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Why don’t you fix your little problem and light this candle |
I have actually read what is happening here and I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. but it is quite simply incredible photography: This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. -Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Joshua Painter Played by Senator Fred Thompson | |||
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Official Space Nerd |
I met the captain of a ship that got caught up in the Castle Bravo fallout cloud. The entire crew got something like the equivalent of 400+ dental X-rays over their entire bodies, all at once. He's apparently doing just fine - he's 103 yrs old and still going strong. Funny thing was, they weren't told they were all nuked until later. They had arrived back at Pearl Harbor, and sent the ship's laundry off to a civilian Laundromat, and when they got the clothes back, they were all too hot to handle. They sealed them in steel drums and sunk them several thousand feet deep (they never did tell the Laundromat people ). He went through his house with a Geiger counter, and could find everywhere he went due to all the leftover rads in his house. Nobody would shake his hand for weeks when they found out about it. Those are amazing photos/videos. Thank God they are all tests. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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Ball Haulin' |
Redstone: You mentioned reading up on what exactly was happening in those pics. Where did you run across that info? Those pics to me are facinating in a very frightening way. I dont know exactly WHAT is happening but would like to learn more. Thanks. -------------------------------------- "There are things we know. There are things we dont know. Then there are the things we dont know that we dont know." | |||
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