quote:

Originally posted by GA Gator:

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
The developers have been rushing this to completion. They wanted it open before the new Four Seasons opens. I spoke with one of the investors in the FS today while at work

There is a saying in construction "nothing turns a garden variety problem into a full blown disaster like a can do attitude. "

Owner says we need the project completed by such and such date and companies are quick to say "we can deliver"

That's the truth. There are a lot of places that things can go terribly wrong if things get rushed. I'm using this to remind my engineering students that designs don't just have to be stable in their final condition, but also in all the interim steps needed to get to that final condition. Too often you will see an engineer propose a final design and then rely on the "means and methods" of the contractor to get it there. Said contractor often doesn't have the expertise to properly analyze those interim conditions.

I read somewhere that a crane fell at the very top and caused a cascading failure type collapse.

Read a comment by a local Structural engineer who’s been studying the photos

Top 2 exposed floors were poured 30x30 with supports only rated for 7x10

I can only think the lower floors already enclosed possibly were the same

It would not surprise me in the least since it’s New Orleans, Someone payed some inspectors off. The whole project has been wrought in controversy, they demolished a beautiful 1939 Art Deco era Woolworths for this. (Peaches Records saved the lunch counter)

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I read somewhere that a crane fell at the very top and caused a cascading failure type collapse.

At around 4:09 in the drone video I posted you can see a fallen crane at ground level. Whether that was the cause I have no idea.

Never mind, same video as OP. Here is another video of the crane going down.

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
Read a comment by a local Structural engineer who’s been studying the photos

Top 2 exposed floors were poured 30x30 with supports only rated for 7x10

I can only think the lower floors already enclosed possibly were the same

It would not surprise me in the least since it’s New Orleans, Someone payed some inspectors off. The whole project has been wrought in controversy, they demolished a beautiful 1939 Art Deco era Woolworths for this. (Peaches Records saved the lunch counter)

If that is the case, perhaps a blessing that it failed now, and not when fully occupied.

quote:

Here is another video of the crane going down.

That doesn't appear to be a crane. It looks to be a construction elevator.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Here is another video of the crane going down.

That doesn't appear to be a crane. It looks to be a construction elevator.

Yep. Looks like a buck hoist, not a crane. It fell as a result of the floors collapsing.

Partial structural components in place with construction loads exceeding the limits. Actually not hard to do with unique instruction designs. The final engineering is one thing but occasionally construction materials get stockpiled in areas that exceed design limits. An in process mistake that caused the collapse.

I doubt it was anything nefarious. Private engineers design and inspect these projects. Especially for high end customers. A local inspector would t know what he is even looking at.

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
Partial structural components in place with construction loads exceeding the limits. Actually not hard to do with unique instruction designs. The final engineering is one thing but occasionally construction materials get stockpiled in areas that exceed design limits. An in process mistake that caused the collapse.

I doubt it was anything nefarious. Private engineers design and inspect these projects. Especially for high end customers. A local inspector would t know what he is even looking at.

But this is New Orleans

https://www.nola.com/news/cour...c7-83f3619becbf.html

Was just looking at Google Earth street views of the site. Looks like it was being built using post-tensioned slabs. The way the building collapsed looks like a dead ringer for a failure of some sort in that system. I’m sure that’s one area they’ll be scrutinizing.

I can only speculate based on what I see and my experience. My company repairs failing and weakened concrete structures. I would hazard a guess that one of two things happened
1. There are multiple engineering firms on the project and they got in a pissing match about what was safe and allowable and the contractor went with the answer they wanted to hear.
We are dealing with this exact scenario on a job out here in Boston. There are 6 different firms handling the project and nobody wants to be accountable for a repair design so they all pass it to another firm. Luckily the superintendent on site knows her shit and won’t put the guys in a dangerous situation.
2. Either the GC or a sub totally screwed up and started doing work not scheduled to be performed yet (ex working on upper floors with heavy equipment Before concrete had reached an appropriate strength) or either cut corners or missed a step (ex. Wrong rebar spacing)
I had the pleasure of doing a job a couple years back where the concrete contractor “forgot” to install the rebar in concrete columns of a new apartment building. It was discovered by the owner when he stopped by for an inspection after the concrete was poured and there were 200 sticks of bar sitting there.
Mistakes do happen. Luckily at least with my company there are so many safeguards in place we are usually able to minimize or catch them (photo and video documentation of everything sent to project management and engineers)

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by GA Gator:

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
The developers have been rushing this to completion. They wanted it open before the new Four Seasons opens. I spoke with one of the investors in the FS today while at work

There is a saying in construction "nothing turns a garden variety problem into a full blown disaster like a can do attitude. "

Owner says we need the project completed by such and such date and companies are quick to say "we can deliver"

My friend owns several hotels. He is having a new one built to replace the antiquated one he had there. If they don't complete by July 2020, they pay a penalty of $3k per day to him. Perhaps something along these lines was in effect in this hotel.

Aaah..the old "liquidated damages".
I've only seen a couple times it was actually enforced. As a GC, or sub, document every delay that is caused by outside agents. Shit rolls down hill as they say.
Was a sub on one project in 25 years when the bonding agent had to finish the job.

Workers video showing supports and issues prior to the collapse

https://www.nola.com/news/arti...f6-231f92b121e2.html

They doing a controlled detonation to bring boom, counterweight and cab down today. Both cranes

I'll tell you this- they could take down the entire structure, take it down all the way to the foundation, start again using an entirely different construction company, proceed slowly, make sure that every inch is perfectly constructed, and there's still no way that I would walk into the finished building.

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
They doing a controlled detonation to bring boom, counterweight and cab down today. Both cranes

Postponed til Saturday due to winds (which is what they worried about to begin with)

East crane has shifted 4-5”

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Was just looking at Google Earth street views of the site. Looks like it was being built using post-tensioned slabs. The way the building collapsed looks like a dead ringer for a failure of some sort in that system. I’m sure that’s one area they’ll be scrutinizing.

I actually have seen a lot more photos and most of my original assumptions were likely wrong. The section on top of the podium is structural steel with concrete on metal decking do it wouldn't need shoring.

They just completed a controlled implosion of the two cranes. We just witnessed it on WDSU TV.

I don't see the video yet on their website.

Part of one of the cranes appears to be standing upright on Rampart Street.

Part of the other crane appears to be hanging over the corner of the building pointing down at the corner of Canal and Burgundy Streets.

I expect videos to be up soon on Nola.com and other news agencies.

Video of crane demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...inue=4&v=hbsSytXpQO8



https://www.supernewsworld.com...k-Site-10236328.html