P250UA5 - I know you know but worth mentioning especially since you are using a borrowed generator. Be sure to unplug everything from it, shut it down, give it five minutes, and check the generators OIL level.

Ask me how I learned this lesson about 25 years ago, and the unit I locked up did not have a low oil shut off.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Costco has a Firman tri fuel 7500.9400 portable generator on sale for $799.99, you would probably need to order it in your area or drive to LA or Dallas to find one on the shelf.

Link

For a permanent install and looking at the area by your pool equipment you need to check local ordinances on installs, here you can't be withing so many feet of a window so that you don't have exhaust going back into the house so it may or may not be able to go between the pool equipment and fence.

Mentioned this in the spaghetti thread re portables.

You should setup a pad with NG connection for a portable, then have a transfer switch installed, with that setup you can then go to the main panel and turn off things you don't want running off the generator such as a pool pump which uses a lot of electricity.

This way you can hook up the fuel, connect the house, easily disconnect from the grid and run the whole house without extension cords.

Ask me how I know this stuff after 30 years in the Hurricane state...

Thanks, will look into that once some normalcy returns.
I had seen a Westinghouse at HD & Tractor Supply that was rated 9kw run, 12kw start/peak. Both stores had it for about $1,100

Plan is to do like you mention & set up a manual tfr switch & NG access near the main panel.

quote:

Originally posted by wxdave:
I was without power for 50 hours during Beryl, and I consider myself fortunate compared to the rest of Houston. I am getting a whole house generator this summer, so I can be self-sufficient. My neighbor has a 18kW and it runs his house great, especially with micro starts on his 2 x 3-ton A/C units. I have a portable genny, but the outages in Houston are getting worse and more frequent.

My issue is that natural gas and electric are on opposite sides of the house. I would like to have CenterPoint agree to tie in to the gas supply on the electrical side of my house (that my neighbor uses) and install a second meter. Does anyone know if that is possible?

We have the same issue, and was part of why the Generac quote we got was inflated. Running electrical across the house to where the pool equip [gas access for the pool heater]. Apparently the heavy gauge wiring is pricey & it was something like an estimated 150ft run.
We also had the concern of blowing the Generac exhaust toward the AC unit & pushing exhaust into the attic via the soffit.

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
P250UA5 - I know you know but worth mentioning especially since you are using a borrowed generator. Be sure to unplug everything from it, shut it down, give it five minutes, and check the generators OIL level.

Ask me how I learned this lesson about 25 years ago, and the unit I locked up did not have a low oil shut off.

Changed the oil last night. 50hr interval on it.
Uses just under 1 qt, got 4 just in case this goes on longer than expected.
Glad I ordered the oil online, the store was completely out of straight 30w oil when I got there.

My neighbor didn't know the interval on his. Said it had probably been running 75 hrs
He shut it down & did an oil change then.

Per my comments in the what's your deal thread. This is borrowed equipment, I'm not about to tear it up & intend to return it with fresh oil & a full tank & full gas can.

I'll just throw in my limited experience/perspective.

Where I live in FL, we don't get hit by hurricanes but about once every 90 years, or so. Still, outer bands, severe thunderstorms/tornadoes do knock out power occasionally. When I first moved in to my house, I bought a 5500 running/8500 starting watt portable generator, Briggs & Stratton brand. Due to another issue and hurricane planning, I have 2 window AC units I keep in reserve. When Irma came through for our centennial hurricane, I lost power for 54 hours. Using heavy gauge extension cords, I powered a fridge, chest freezer, and 2 window AC units, one small, one medium size. The Briggs generator worked great, powered everything without issue. But, it is LOUD. So loud, I built a temporary shelter to try to direct the sound away from myself and neighbors into a forest behind me. It helped, but not much. It was so loud, I had a hard time sleeping, even though the genny was 40' from my bedroom, and I had the white noise of the AC to help drown it out. Eventually, I had to wear foam earplugs full time.

After Irma, a neighbor several houses away had a whole house Generac unit installed with an automatic transfer switch. When it kicks on, I hear it inside my house, though it isn't intolerable. I decided I did not want such a system, not only due to cost, but also the noise. A quiet whole house generator is out of my price range.

So, I took a different approach. I looked up the power requirements for my appliances, and figured out that I can get away with a 3000W generator. At night, when I need the AC on in the bedrooms, I unplug the chest freezer, since it can stay cold for a long time. Then, I am only running the fridge and 2 window AC units. In the morning, I turn off the AC units and plug in the chest freezer to let it cool back down. Manual load shedding, I guess. But, I now use a Honda EU3000 alternator generator that is MUCH quieter, and since it is designed to power travel trailers and RV's, it has a large enough tank to run everything I need more than overnight. It burns less fuel, as well. Standard preparation in my house is to always have 20 gal. of ethanol-free gasoline available, that I rotate out once per year. That should be enough fuel for 2-3 days. If a large storm is forecasted, I have enough cans for 40gals, and I'd stock up. Sure, it is not as convenient as an automatic whole house system, but it costs about 1/8th as much. I have to manually control loads, but that is not a big deal, and after a hurricane, what else am I going to do anyway? As a side benefit, I have a quality portable generator I can use for other tasks. I think if I needed more power than I currently have, I'd keep the same system and just move up to the EU7000.

For anyone with a generator, be sure you have plenty of oil and change it on schedule for your machine. I see plenty of people that don't take that into account. My B&S engine has a 50 hours oil change interval, that's only 2 days if it is running full time. The Honda has a 100 hour oil change interval, but that's still only about 4 days. One of my students that got hit by Charlie was without power for 30 days. Fortunately for him, his dad owned a commercial business that had a 500 gal diesel tank and 25KW generator at home.

After initial thought about installing a whole house, assessing all my requirements and the cost involved I’ve gone a different direction to achieve a 15kw which will be enough to satisfy the wife with her wanted comforts

My house has more power coming in than will ever be used again. Commercial 3phase with 4 legs (original builder in 1963 had a welder circuit, Davit crane for his 60ft boat, main house and shop)
A bit more complicated than I wanted to mess with, no main shutoff on interior panel, all outside

I bought a 9000/7600w dual fuel inverter generator from Genmax (part of Dinking made in China, I know, I know couldn’t get around it affordably) $1900 off Amazon store front. As with many of the inverter gensets they can be paralleled. Plan is to purchase another and get 15,2kw for the whole house. 62db at 20ft so relatively quiet. About a 1/3!as loud as my old open frame. It worked but too loud to even think if it’s anywhere close

I have a 50A interlock switch getting installed this upcoming Monday… $1600

So for $6000 (including extension cord I’ll be able to meet wife’s expectations and not break the bank

They have larger than 9000 available 10,5 and 12000. Too heavy for me to get up the stairs onto the raised deck when the water comes up and under the house which is normal during storms

Finished first 2hrs break in last night

The gas line stub at the patio won’t be large enough to run a whole house generator.

If you are going to get a portable, get an inverter model. It’s better for the electronics.

If you are running 2x a day to Costco for gas, you’re doing it wrong. I’m fairly sure I went 6 days before needing gas. I didn’t run the fridge though as it there wasn’t anything worth saving relative to the fuel cost. I did use a big cooler with ice and we ate the frozen stuff first. I think we lost $20 worth of condiments.

I ran the generator about 10 hours a day for the pool pump. We used the washer, but hung our clothes out to dry. We charged our devices, ran the ceiling fans, used the microwave, stove, TV, set aside some time to run the water heater as well.

quote:

My issue is that natural gas and electric are on opposite sides of the house. I would like to have CenterPoint agree to tie in to the gas supply on the electrical side of my house (that my neighbor uses) and install a second meter. Does anyone know if that is possible?

You would have to call to find out for sure. Assuming the pipe is big enough, probably end up creating a second account for that with my gas company, or add the 2nd meter to the existing account.
I had the same issue, but the cheapest option by far was 1" CSST (flexible SS tube) from the gas meter to the other side of the house where my generator was adjacent to the electrical power.

What's funny is that I priced it out and was about to buy it when I was told by my natural gas provider they would provide all the hardware, pipe, regulators, tubing and fittings. Ok, I braced myself for what they were going to charge.

2 guys came out for about 6 hours and did all the plumbing, including ~78' of CSST. They charged me a flat rate $99 for the entire install, labor, parts, and all... Just for reference, 1" CSST is right at $200, and that doesn't include all the pipe, fittings, and regulators. I was totally shocked when I got that bill and called to make sure it was accurate, they said that's just how they did things. I spent over 10x that much for the electrical part of the install, I consider myself extremely lucky on that gas side of the install.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The gas line stub at the patio won’t be large enough to run a whole house generator.

If you are going to get a portable, get an inverter model. It’s better for the electronics.

If you are running 2x a day to Costco for gas, you’re doing it wrong. I’m fairly sure I went 6 days before needing gas. I didn’t run the fridge though as it there wasn’t anything worth saving relative to the fuel cost. I did use a big cooler with ice and we ate the frozen stuff first. I think we lost $20 worth of condiments.

I ran the generator about 10 hours a day for the pool pump. We used the washer, but hung our clothes out to dry. We charged our devices, ran the ceiling fans, used the microwave, stove, TV, set aside some time to run the water heater as well.

Was thinking more for a portable, not to run something like a Generac.
We've been running the gen almost non-stop, and it gets about 10hrs to a tank, at I'm guessing about 3gal. So consuming at about .3-.4gal/hr I guess.

I've also only got 1x 5 gal [can squeeze in 6 gal] can.

No 4-stroke yard equipment anymore, so I got rid of/gave away my 5 gal cans & just have a 2.5gal for my 2-stroke.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

My issue is that natural gas and electric are on opposite sides of the house. I would like to have CenterPoint agree to tie in to the gas supply on the electrical side of my house (that my neighbor uses) and install a second meter. Does anyone know if that is possible?

You would have to call to find out for sure. Assuming the pipe is big enough, probably end up creating a second account for that with my gas company, or add the 2nd meter to the existing account.
I had the same issue, but the cheapest option by far was 1" CSST (flexible SS tube) from the gas meter to the other side of the house where my generator was adjacent to the electrical power.

What's funny is that I priced it out and was about to buy it when I was told by my natural gas provider they would provide all the hardware, pipe, regulators, tubing and fittings. Ok, I braced myself for what they were going to charge.

2 guys came out for about 6 hours and did all the plumbing, including ~78' of CSST. They charged me a flat rate $99 for the entire install, labor, parts, and all... Just for reference, 1" CSST is right at $200, and that doesn't include all the pipe, fittings, and regulators. I was totally shocked when I got that bill and called to make sure it was accurate, they said that's just how they did things. I spent over 10x that much for the electrical part of the install, I consider myself extremely lucky on that gas side of the install.

^ In that sense, I guess it's at least worth a call to the gas company [we're CenterPoint, too] to see if they have anything like that, before putting out the expense of DIY.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

quote:

2 guys came out for about 6 hours and did all the plumbing, including ~78' of CSST. They charged me a flat rate $99 for the entire install, labor, parts, and all... Just for reference, 1" CSST is right at $200, and that doesn't include all the pipe, fittings, and regulators. I was totally shocked when I got that bill and called to make sure it was accurate, they said that's just how they did things. I spent over 10x that much for the electrical part of the install, I consider myself extremely lucky on that gas side of the install.

^ In that sense, I guess it's at least worth a call to the gas company [we're CenterPoint, too] to see if they have anything like that, before putting out the expense of DIY.

Well, as I said, I was pretty shocked that it cost so little. But no, it can't hurt to call. Also, I'm in SE AL, not TX, so it's anyone's guess. I was just relaying my experience, which may or may not be an outlier.

Around here, NO ONE touches gas lines except the local gas district. No one else is allowed to...

If you go the portable route, I highly suggest getting an inverter style generator.

I run my house through an interlock to the main panel. Most of our outages are wintertime storms, average outage is 30 hours.

I used to run a 7500w Generac, then I upgraded to a 9500w Black Max. Both were standard generators, and we noticed that the LED light in the ceiling fan (remote controlled) would blink if we didn't use the override switch to shut it off.
We also used an average of 5gal/10 hours. I would shut down and refuel/check the oil in the morning, late afternoon, and before bed.

Since replacing my water heater with a heat-pump hybrid model, I found it would not run on the generator. Was told it was the quality of power input, the controller would not start it to prevent damage to the system.

I replaced the Generator with the Harbor Freight 9500w Inverter, and have found the lights no longer blink in the ceiling fan, the heat pump water heater has no issues running, and on "eco-mode" I can run all night (12 hours) and only use 3-4 gal.
I check the oil and refuel in the morning, shut off the eco mode for showerers and breakfast, then run on eco for the rest of the day, shutting down early evening for fuel/oil check.

I know Honda makes a 7000w version for over $4k, Harbor Freight, Westinghouse, and DuroMax have larger units for less $$.

Guess I'll need to do some research on inverter vs standard. And the cost/install differences between.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Guess I'll need to do some research on inverter vs standard. And the cost/install differences between.

the install prices will be the same. Cost between the two, standard will be cheaper. Inverter makes a stable 60hz and are much more fuel efficient, and not near as loud

I figured you only have 1 gas can. Buc-ee’s has decent “water jugs” for about $23 each. What you don’t use can be dumped into the Explorer.

The NG stub on the patio would probably be Ok for a small generator.

Inverter generators make cleaner electricity than the cheap portables. They are quieter and use less fuel at partial loads because their engines aren’t limited to running 3,600rpm.

Not to hi-jack this thread but I have a question that I know the experts here can help me understand.

We are looking at a 14kw outside generator (not a portable one) with plans to only run part of our house (our water heater and heat are natural gas and we have a 14,000 BTU portable AC that is 120 volt that we can set up for the required AC). The unit is offered with an100 or 200 amp transfer switch with the cost difference being $500 more for the 200 amp unit.

Do I need to spend the extra for the 200 amp transfer switch? My house has a 200 amp breaker panel currently.

Thanks for any feedback.

Highjack away. I changed the thread title to be more inclusive & open for comment.

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
Not to hi-jack this thread but I have a question that I know the experts here can help me understand.

We are looking at a 14kw outside generator (not a portable one) with plans to only run part of our house (our water heater and heat are natural gas and we have a 14,000 BTU portable AC that is 120 volt that we can set up for the required AC). The unit is offered with an100 or 200 amp transfer switch with the cost difference being $500 more for the 200 amp unit.

Do I need to spend the extra for the 200 amp transfer switch? My house has a 200 amp breaker panel currently.

Thanks for any feedback.

The 200a one will be service rated. It becomes your main electrical panel, then your electrical panel is rewired as a sub panel. Depending on location of grounding and house construction this can be a major pain or somewhat easier. After rewiring the main panel you will need to add relays/contactors the turn off large loads that would overload the generator.

With the 100a variety those either have an included sub panel or are meant to have a sub panel added to them. Then you select your loads that you want covered by generator eliminating the need for load shedding or relays that would be needed to cover entire electrical panel. Since you are only doing a 14kw I would recommend the 100a as the generator can only produce 60a or less and it would save money on the conversion of the main to a sub panel plus the load shedding.

If the total installed cost including load shedding is $500, take it, it's a steal. If it's only the ATS price difference, but excludes the load shedding that would be needed to isolate the A/C or other large loads. Then I'd stick to the smaller one combined with sub panel.

Many years ago I would charge $400+ depending on the difficulty for the A/C load shedding (typically functionality is built into ATS). Then larger loads like emergency heat, pool sub panels, ovens, etc. would have contactors installed to cut them out depending on load, or relays/contactors that removes the load at generator startup.

Skins - Thanks Sir. We have not pulled the trigger on anything yet. Your comments will allow me to speak with a little more knowledge going in when we meet with the licensed electrician who installed my father’s system three years ago (it has worked flawlessly). This gentleman and his associate do one to two installs of these type systems a month so he knows what is required. He will guide me on my system purchase and also provide me with an install price. I will update when this occurs. Thanks again, Mark

Also posted in the spaghetti models thread:

quote:

Question for our electrically savvy types: our champion outputs 240v into the panel. I was tossing around the idea of a second Honda inverter to parallel with our current one. That would give us 4200 watts. Can 120v be run into the same inlet as the big gen and have our 120v circuits energized?

Any thoughts?

^^^ there wouldn't be any way to synchronize the two generators. You'd be better off selling the 4.2kw and buying a 7-8kw one instead, or converting furnace to plug and cord, then using the inverter unit for any electronics or appliances with PCBs if you are considering the inverter for power conditioning.

quote:

Originally posted by tigereye313:
Also posted in the spaghetti models thread:

quote:

Question for our electrically savvy types: our champion outputs 240v into the panel. I was tossing around the idea of a second Honda inverter to parallel with our current one. That would give us 4200 watts. Can 120v be run into the same inlet as the big gen and have our 120v circuits energized?

Any thoughts?

Just for clarity, you have a Honda inverter generator and want to parallel a second Honda generator with it.

Yes, you can use the parallel kit to connect the two Hondas.

As far as power to all the 120 circuits on the panel, maybe? Logically speaking, turning off the 240 breakers and wiring both hot feeds at the outlet together would do that. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a good reason not to do that though.

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
Not to hi-jack this thread but I have a question that I know the experts here can help me understand.

We are looking at a 14kw outside generator (not a portable one) with plans to only run part of our house (our water heater and heat are natural gas and we have a 14,000 BTU portable AC that is 120 volt that we can set up for the required AC). The unit is offered with an100 or 200 amp transfer switch with the cost difference being $500 more for the 200 amp unit.

Do I need to spend the extra for the 200 amp transfer switch? My house has a 200 amp breaker panel currently.

Thanks for any feedback.

Will 14kw run your house? If not, why not get one that will?

Just a note I learned when buying mine, this is from the electrician/owner of the company. He suggested not buying a whole house that was only big enough to run the house when at 100% of capacity since it would work everything harder. Going up some on KW rating was insignificant so I stuck with 20KW and was running no more than 40% of max this past week. The electrician evaluated my usage and spec’s the transfer switch and electrical using that. Not sure why you need to figure it out.