This is where I'd assume we'd put a permanent installed generator, between the pool quip & the A/C unit. Gas line terminates just past the pad for the pool equip

Don't mind the mess, haven't been home long enough to start cleanup from the storm, that limb just barely missed our pool pump.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
You don't have the easiest set up it sounds like. If you post or email me some pictures of your electrical panel(s), electrical service/meter, and tell me what you want powered and not then I can make some suggestions and give you questions to ask the installer.

Sending you an email.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Yeah, with 3 kids & 2 dogs, having AC in a TX summer is pretty much a must have. Not sure hoe much portable gen it would take to run the AC & fridge(s)

Not as much as you think if you install a soft start like the Easy Start offered by Micro Air.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Yeah, with 3 kids & 2 dogs, having AC in a TX summer is pretty much a must have. Not sure hoe much portable gen it would take to run the AC & fridge(s)

Not as much as you think if you install a soft start like the Easy Start offered by Micro Air.

Interesting product. I was thinking more about generator capacity to keep those items running, but startup does factor in for sure.
I think our unit is a 5 ton.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Yeah, with 3 kids & 2 dogs, having AC in a TX summer is pretty much a must have. Not sure hoe much portable gen it would take to run the AC & fridge(s)

Not as much as you think if you install a soft start like the Easy Start offered by Micro Air.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Yeah, with 3 kids & 2 dogs, having AC in a TX summer is pretty much a must have. Not sure hoe much portable gen it would take to run the AC & fridge(s)

Not as much as you think if you install a soft start like the Easy Start offered by Micro Air.

Hadn't seen that brand and can't speak to that particular unit, but I've used this one:
http://www.hypereng.com/single_phase.html

My 3 ton HVAC has been run with an LP powered 5.7kw 230VAC portable generator using it. Same basic soft-starter concept. Prior to installing it, the generator breaker would trip when the compressor started. That was before I installed a 22kw Generac a few years ago... I still have it as a backup to my backup.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Yeah, with 3 kids & 2 dogs, having AC in a TX summer is pretty much a must have. Not sure hoe much portable gen it would take to run the AC & fridge(s)

Not as much as you think if you install a soft start like the Easy Start offered by Micro Air.

Interesting product. I was thinking more about generator capacity to keep those items running, but startup does factor in for sure.
I think our unit is a 5 ton.

If you look on the outside of your outdoor unit you should find something along the line of LRA ___ that’s what you’ll need to be able to operate your unit without causing issues unless you use one of the soft start units.

If he sized a generator on LRA it would require a 25+ kw generator. Each generator has a starting capacity. For a 20-22kw it should be 160-190a, a 5 ton AC typically has a LRA of 145 (older ones slightly higher) they can also develop a larger in rush or starting amperage with age as well. For a five ton unit he would need to install a hard start kit as well as use load shedding for any loads that can turn on by themselves such as pool equipment, septic, HVAC, or refrigeration.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I am getting a 20kw installed now, total with tax about 15k (I opted to go from 6-10 year warranty and that added $500). I was quoted 12k about five years ago. I stayed away from Generac on advice from my electrician. He will install any brand but he claims Generac has gone down hill using Chinese engines and parts. He also claims there are some delays getting repair parts. YMMV

I have the cash to pay for it but opted to get a loan against my 401k. I’m paying myself back in interest and being six years from retirement it is not going to affect long term gains.

I have two friends that have already had the electrician I’m using install theirs. Mine should be complete in a week or two and then I can give an opinion on the install. If you guys in the Houston area are interested in how it turns out and if I end up satisfied with the work, email me.

Sooo, you're NOT getting Generac...What are you getting?

The mind ain’t what it used to be. Briggs and Stratton which is actually 20kw on natural gas (some are rated for propane which is higher kw’s. They usually advertise on the highest output so you have to watch that).

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
If he sized a generator on LRA it would require a 25+ kw generator. Each generator has a starting capacity. For a 20-22kw it should be 160-190a, a 5 ton AC typically has a LRA of 145 (older ones slightly higher) they can also develop a larger in rush or starting amperage with age as well. For a five ton unit he would need to install a hard start kit as well as use load shedding for any loads that can turn on by themselves such as pool equipment, septic, HVAC, or refrigeration.

No, not with a soft starter. The inrush on my five ton unit was around 115a before I installed an Easy Start 368 from Micro Air. After the soft starter, the inrush runs in the low 40s, from 41 to 44 amps, depending on the head pressure. A hard starter is a whole different animal altogether. A hard starter does little to lower your LRA.

Before I installed the Easy Start, my 15kva diesel generator would barely start my AC, sometimes. It sounded like it was going to burn it up and ruin it. After the soft starter, the generator barely changes pitch when the AC starts.

Sizing a generator simply to overcome AC LRA is wasteful and unnecessary. You pay for too much generator up front at install, and you run the generator at a fraction of its capacity 99% of the time, using more fuel than a smaller unit would.

I had always assumed hard/soft start kits were similar items. Just googled it, apparently the soft starts works kind of like a VFD. Maybe that's what my customers went with in the end. I would never install anything on customers A/C's and always just told them to contact their HVAC company and have them advise them. I installed a couple on units that drew more power at startup than they should until my buddy told me that they are just a bandaid until the compressor fails, so I switched to telling them to consult their HVAC company to remove liability in case someone's A/C died shortly after gen install.

Good info, thanks.

As far as sizing to run A/C I don't see anything wrong with sizing a generator to the largest possible load on the house. No matter what 90% of the time the generator is running below 50% of the rating 90% of the time. I've always oversized generators (except diesel) because they last longer at lower loads. At work our generators (almost 200 of them) are way, way oversized for some reason. 2,000kW or 2,500kW each.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I had always assumed hard/soft start kits were similar items. Just googled it, apparently the soft starts works kind of like a VFD.

Just to clarify, I also use 3 phase 480V soft starters for many of my work applications(read high starting inertia loads), and these devices are not all that different, it's actually 2 devices combined. At startup it acts like a VFD(controls the frequency as well as the voltage presented to the motor) for a second or so, but after the load has passed the LRA (Locked Rotor Amps) region of the operating curve, it basically becomes an across the line starter providing full voltage to the motor to run as normal. This reduces the peak current required by basically spreading the power required out, over time.

A hard starter is more of a bandaid to start a motor that's more than likely failing, or being used beyond it's design capacity.

We have power! Just shy of 48 hours since it went down Wednesday night

Awesome!

Enjoy a hot shower in preparation for tomorrow's work. Hopefully nothing more than cleaning up limbs and leaves.

Yup. Yard & pool cleanup & building the structure for the 'garage' for the Midget.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
We have power! Just shy of 48 hours since it went down Wednesday night

Congrats!

The best description of this week's thunderstorm I heard, "A one-hour hurricane." Even the monster hurricane Ike didn't have that high of wind this far north. The record wind speed ever recorded at Bush Intercontinental Airport was 82 mph during Ike but it hit 97 Wednesday night. 15 years of tree growth since we had that big of winds.

That's pretty much how I've been describing it to people. A 20min hurricane.

I remember Ike well. I was in college at Sam Houston & living in Conroe. Winds were still strong enough to uproot large trees in Huntsville.
My apt didn't have power for 2 weeks. I was a nomad to friends couches that had power or generators.

Bumping this to not derail the running hurricane thread.

We're currently about 63 hours runtime on a borrowed [6kw] generator. Currently running just 1 fridge, deep freezer, 1 window AC unit, and the TV/network equip in the living room.

Tossing between either getting a bigger 'portable' generator, something probably in the 9-12kw range, or considering the large price jump to a fixed install.

Browsing around, have seen a few tri-fuel portables in the $1-2k range, where a 'diy' Generac is more like $6k, plus any install costs associated.

With either route, I'd need to have a NG line extended to the area near my elec panel.
I have a NG stub on the back patio, but figure extending that to the side of the house would probably be easier/cheaper than running sufficient electrical to the stub [and would move the generator to the side of the house, rather than right off the living room].

Definitely want to look for something NG powered [which seems to mean tri-fuel for a portable], as the 2x/day trips to Costco for gas have been tedious, plus planning our day to be sure to get home to top the gen up before it runs dry. We're getting 9-10 hrs of runtime per tank, and I think it holds around 3.5gal.

Any other members that want to pick the generator-knowledgeable, feel free to post in here.

Costco has a Firman tri fuel 7500.9400 portable generator on sale for $799.99, you would probably need to order it in your area or drive to LA or Dallas to find one on the shelf.

Link

For a permanent install and looking at the area by your pool equipment you need to check local ordinances on installs, here you can't be withing so many feet of a window so that you don't have exhaust going back into the house so it may or may not be able to go between the pool equipment and fence.

Mentioned this in the spaghetti thread re portables.

You should setup a pad with NG connection for a portable, then have a transfer switch installed, with that setup you can then go to the main panel and turn off things you don't want running off the generator such as a pool pump which uses a lot of electricity.

This way you can hook up the fuel, connect the house, easily disconnect from the grid and run the whole house without extension cords.

Ask me how I know this stuff after 30 years in the Hurricane state...

I was without power for 50 hours during Beryl, and I consider myself fortunate compared to the rest of Houston. I am getting a whole house generator this summer, so I can be self-sufficient. My neighbor has a 18kW and it runs his house great, especially with micro starts on his 2 x 3-ton A/C units. I have a portable genny, but the outages in Houston are getting worse and more frequent.

My issue is that natural gas and electric are on opposite sides of the house. I would like to have CenterPoint agree to tie in to the gas supply on the electrical side of my house (that my neighbor uses) and install a second meter. Does anyone know if that is possible?