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Be prepared for loud noise and recoil |
I wouldn’t blame any officer who decided it just wasn’t worth it to be a cop anymore. “Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant.” – James Madison "Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." - Robert Louis Stevenson | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
I sometimes wonder if me having a stroke and having to retire early was Gods way of keeping me safe. I know for sure my old department has turned completely woke and there is no real policing anymore. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
If the decedent had cooperated and gone to jail like a man, he might be alive. This requires understanding and accepting the idea that actions have consequences, something I wager he never got taught by his parents. Watching the badge camera video was enlightening. You could almost see the everlasting Bright Light of Reality pop on in the officer's head when she realized she'd just shot, not tazered, a fighting, fleeing criminal. I note also that she damned near shot the other officer in that melee. And now, not only is she living with the realization of shooting and killing someone, she is living with the realization that she is in serious legal jeopardy and she and her family (husband, kids, parents) are in even more serious personal jeopardy when they get doxxed, which they will. None of that is grounds for the rioting and vandalism that will hit urban centers every night this week. It does not justify the vile invective that will be spewed by the far left and the people who believe that our nation is fundamentally racist. I'm guessing that by the end of the week there will be about $100B in losses, the southern border will striped of resources sent to quell riots, and Iran will do something stupid because... well why the hell not? Biden is focused on cookies and milk time, Harris is destroying our nation with people crossing the southern border. I'd also like to toss another issue out there. In my opinion, this is why the Tazer should not have grip ergonomics that are even remotely similar to a pistol. I know I'll get flamed for saying that, but if the Tazer was shaped completely differently than a pistol, perhaps her mid-brain would have realized she had a pistol in her hand when that was not what she intended. And before people say it, I do believe the reason for the Tazer design is to capitalize on the training officers get with firearms. Rather than have to learn two wholly different systems with the attendant duration of training needed to begin developing the two different neural impressions that are muscle memory, the idea is the grip-point-aim-shoot of a Tazer uses some of the muscle memory gained in pistol training. If I was the Tazer CEO, I'd be meeting with my chief designer/engineer right now. In defense of my statement I offer this image from the Axon website:  Hmmm... grip ergonomics just like a pistol. In fact that person has really good grip skills if it was a pistol. Now we could avoid the entire issue by taking pistols from law enforcement and giving them Tazers, but that would cause most officers to quit (I was a police officer and my department disarmed me I'd be first out the door). Or we can take Tazers shaped like pistols from the officer on the street and give them pistols, but that takes a valuable tool from them. But the best answer is to give them a pistol and a Tazer that does not look or feel like a handgun. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
I have never looked at a Taser (from either end). Are they black, like handguns? Or are they a bright color, like maybe a fluorescent lime green, that might give a visual clue as to which weapon the officer is wielding? הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
Depends on the model. Some are bright yellow, other black and yellow, and others all black.  Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
They have both. I preferred the yellow. Current agency issues the black. But policy requires carrying taser on weak side, so either draw with your weak hand or cross draw with strong. That’s a pretty standard requirement for many departments from my experience after a few of these cases through the years. I’ve said it before though...the vast majority of the public would not believe how poorly trained many officers are. Her department likely wears a good bit of responsibility for this, one way or the other, due to poor training, poor policy, or supervisors not enforcing it if it’s written. P.S. I’m a Taser instructor albeit I’m just a glorified technician now a days. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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Our new Taser 7 is a bright yellow. Previous X2 models were plain black, and our X26P prior to that were also black. So.... maybe. I think even the earlier models could have been had in the yellow color. As for making them completely different in feel to a handgun, the trouble is, just like a handgun, they require you to aim and place precise hits on target. Both darts have to hit, and to be in compliance with policy, etc, they have to hit specific regions on the target. It’s tough enough with a device that uses a shape designed to make it easy to aim and hit. Not sure what would work for a “different” shape that still made aiming and hitting as easy as possible. The form factor of modern handguns have been refined over the past couple hundred years in an attempt to come up with the best ergonomics. I will agree with the above that this is a training issue, and possibly an equipment issue in that if she was carrying the taser strong side, it suddenly becomes a LOT easier to draw the wrong tool. Our policy is for off side carry only, set up for off hand draw. And then as much training as we can chisel out of Admin. Bill R | |||
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| hello darkness my old friend  |
Yeah I retired a year ago and was considering returning to law enforcement to double dip in June. I do miss the challenge of the work. I miss helping citizens with their issues but I am not going to return in a hyper politically charged environment where I am sure I would not be given a fair chance if the shit hit the fan. | |||
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Member |
How many times has this scenario happened? I've never heard of it before. I think re-engineering the taser may be a little bit of a rushed decision here to me anyway. She screwed up. And sometimes no matter of prevention stops that. _____________________ Be careful what you tolerate. You are teaching people how to treat you. | |||
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Now you have, from The Philadelphia Inquirer (4/19). . . Bucks DA: New Hope officer mistook gun for Taser, shot man in holding cell __________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy." | |||
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Member |
The original Taser looked like a clunky flashlight and in addition to the dart cartridges you could attach a pair of probes that looked like old rabbit ear TV antennae. Accuracy, getting both darts into the subject, was always a challenge. When they started looking and aiming like a pistol I was concerned that some officers in the heat of conflict might confuse the pistol for the taser. This has happened at least three times in the U.S. that I know of, I believe the first was in Oakland, CA involving a transit police officer. I agree there is a training issue here, things often do not work the way you thought they would when under high stress. CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
A dozen times at least since tasers came mainstream? That’s a guess, but might be on the very low end. Tasers have been around for a long time now. These things used to not get much attention. The BART shooting in 2009 was the one with the most publicity I recall: https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...th-What-13489585.php But I think last year the old guy that was a special deputy in SC that shot a guy gave the taser explanation. I’m sure some googling would show more. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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April 2015 in OK, by a 73 year old reserve deputy: https://tulsaworld.com/newshom...8c-d8b3aefe2504.html | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I’d say that number is way low. | |||
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| Be not wise in thine own eyes  |
Seems with proper training, the 20 year old kid wouldn’t have had a warrant, and wouldn’t have been resisting arrest. The problem with lack of training began nearly 20 years ago would be my guess. “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden “Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021 | |||
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| Live Slow, Die Whenever  |
Love this guy that showed up to cuss out a CNN crew, looks like some folks figured out who the real problem is- the fucking media! https://mobile.twitter.com/ste...786403399405579?s=21 "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." - John Wayne in "The Shootist" | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by medic451: Love this guy that showed up to cuss out a CNN crew, looks like some folks figured out who the real problem is- the fucking media! https://mobile.twitter.com/ste...786403399405579?s=21[/QUOTE Media has to get the riots going again so they have something to report other than what the nitwit in the White House is up to. CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
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| Freethinker |
I agree although a dozen or more is what I mentioned in a discussion yesterday. And I strongly believe that the (very unlikely) possibility of its happening can be lessened by requiring a nondominant hand draw, and not just a dominant hand crossdraw, and certainly not a dominant hand regular handgun draw. A TASER can be switched to the dominant hand quickly and easily after the draw and that helps ensure there is no confusion about which weapon is being deployed in a high stress situation. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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Member |
I know this isn't going to be accepted by some and it's certainly not PC, but IMHO this may be more of a "software" (brain) issue than a "hardware" (device) problem. For years now it's been the intent of many police agencies to hire those who are less psychologically prone to utilize force in order to obtain compliance. Department psychologists can and do look for such people during the testing process and may even weight their examinations against perfectly suitable applicants who don't fit an unrealistic hiring goal. Politicians have routinely claimed for years that female officers are inherently "better" at solving problems involving suspects that resist arrest using verbal skills, than male officers, and it's certainly possible that these same "leaders" insure their feelings are translated into actual hiring practices. So what about those hired that are more effected by the threat(s) posed by those who decide (verbal skills be damned) physical resistance to virtually any lawful arrest is preferable to compliance? Are these officers more likely to become ineffective, when "soft" techniques fail and the use of force is unavoidable? Assuming the same psychological standards are used, can we expect more problems like this (using a firearm when a less lethal option was intended) to be unavoidable? Before I retired in 2008, I saw this trend (while serving as a field supervisor) among many officers, both male and female. I was told by our departmental psychologist that she had "concerns" about the suitability of one of our newer officers during pre-employment testing, yet I found that the officer in question to be extremely well suited for the job when actually seen doing it. How much "dysfunction" is caused when departments knowingly hire those less psychologically prone to use force, when force NEEDS to be used? I believe those complaining about the alleged "poor quality" of cops these days need to examine their own part in the equation. By pandering those who wish to be unaccountable to the law to the point where resistance to any valid arrest is "justifiable" in their own mind, to determining what kind of police officers are hired to deal with these mentalities, I believe they ("leaders" in these communities) have created their own self-fulfilling prophecies. "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge The riots in America and the attempted overthrow of the United States
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