quote:

Would it be fair to say from your statement that if the two cadets in question found the other four not breathing and or pulseless and took no attempt to revive or rescue them they shouldn’t be disciplined? Or should they be disciplined in the above scenario as well?

It would be "fair to say" that I don't buy their story for a second.

Contact contamination or not, they shouldn't have even been in the room with those who were ingesting the cocaine.

All of them- out.

They're supposed to be the best and the brightest. Well, they're not. Out.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Would it be fair to say from your statement that if the two cadets in question found the other four not breathing and or pulseless and took no attempt to revive or rescue them they shouldn’t be disciplined? Or should they be disciplined in the above scenario as well?

There is not enough in the story so far to give us an understanding on what, exactly, the other two cadets were involved in. The fact that they were with the four that OD'd is cause for significant suspicion. Also unknown is what year these cadets were - freshmen, sophomores, juniors or seniors. If the first two, then there is no service obligation - they are just out, pending any UCMJ action. Juniors and seniors have a service obligation and it will be up to the Academy and the Army as to their outcome.

Cadets have had spring break for decades.

However, all six of them played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. Their future is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Isn't cpr just chest compression's these days?

short answer is -- apparently there are 2 separate 'acceptable' techniques nowadays:

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In 2010, the CPR guidelines were updated with the concept of compression-only CPR as a separate option for untrained bystanders. This was based on the concept that, for at least a few minutes, chest compressions alone could circulate the remaining oxygen in the bloodstream of a victim of sudden cardiac arrest. Evidence showed that, in this circumstance, compression-only CPR was just as effective as traditional CPR with compressions and breaths.

https://emergencycare.hsi.com/...are-they-gone-or-not

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so if you are responding to a random guy on the street -- go ahead and just do compressions to help and get EMS / 911 en route

if it's your wife or 'known' loved-one scenario -- breaths are still taught and potentially helpful if you feel comfortable giving them

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If the two who tried resuscitation had no knowledge of the drug activity they should not be punished, if they did have knowledge the other four were doing drugs then they should be gone, even if they personally didn’t partake. Knowing other cadets you’re with are doing that and not reporting, is the same as doing.

quote:

unless the 'CPR givers' can prove the case they were not users themselves.

[QUOTE]

Just being there while it was being used should be reason enough to throw them out.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Isn't cpr just chest compression's these days?

Last time I took it that's all that was taught.

If they were hospitalized, they should have had a tox screen taken. If it just show Fentanyl, let may have picked it up from CPR. If it shows cocaine also, not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Would it be fair to say from your statement that if the two cadets in question found the other four not breathing and or pulseless and took no attempt to revive or rescue them they shouldn’t be disciplined? Or should they be disciplined in the above scenario as well?

It would be "fair to say" that I don't buy their story for a second.

If the ones that did cpr were contaminated that way and they had no real knowledge of the drug use (I’m not buying that one) then a blood test should screen it out. Add a polygraph and you can decide their fate with the results.

quote:

Also unknown is what year these cadets were - freshmen, sophomores, juniors or seniors. If the first two, then there is no service obligation - they are just out, pending any UCMJ action. Juniors and seniors have a service obligation and it will be up to the Academy and the Army as to their outcome.

They are seniors. 2 months to graduation.

In the British Armed forces we used to have no-notice drug tests.

You got accompanied to the head, 'performed' into a sample pot whilst under watch, and then it was tested.

Anything in there that ought not to have been, and you were arrested right there, court-martialled, sentenced to 90 days at Colchester Military Corrective Training Centre, after which you were red-stamped with 'Dishonourable discharge' under Section 69 of the Army Act - 'Conduct prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and military discipline' and 'goned'. No appeal, either.

In my part of the Army I don't recall that happening to anybody though....

(quote. They are seniors. 2 months to graduation.]

OOOps, apparently didn't learn anything.

How in the complete fuck can an officer expect to command the respect it requires to be in charge of a unit of any size at all and not be able to avoid the temptations and moral challenges he will be expected to hold that unit to? It's tough enough, you shouldn't want to be a slug on purpose.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...oint-cadet-rcna19807

A 21-year-old man has been arrested in connection to a mass fentanyl overdose incident involving five cadets from West Point, a prestigious military academy in New York.

Axel Giovany Casseus was arrested on cocaine trafficking charges Friday, a day after the cadets and two other people reportedly overdosed on fentanyl-laced cocaine while spending spring break in Florida, according to an arrest report from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office obtained by NBC News on Saturday.

Casseus supposedly supplied the narcotics that caused the mass overdose on Thursday afternoon while the spring breakers were staying on a rental home in the city of Wilton Manors, according to the arrest report.

Four of the West Point cadets, all men, were found in cardiac arrest in the rental home's front yard. Two were revived using Narcan, an emergency overdose treatment, and rushed to a local hospital.

Two other cadets did not respond to the emergency treatment and were hospitalized in critical condition. They remain hospitalized as of Saturday afternoon, according to the West Point Public Affairs Office.

Casseus was arrested after he sold 43 grams of cocaine for $1,000 to an undercover detective working with Broward County's drug task force on Friday afternoon, according to the report. Detectives said the transaction was audio and video recorded.

Arrest records show Casseus is at the Main Jail in Broward County on a $50,000 bond.

Disclaimer - I’ve not applied to or attended any of the service academies.

I think TV and movies give a false expectation of West Point, Annapolis type students; Taps, Officer and a Gentlemen Included. These are still 18-twenty-something kids faced with the same curiosities and peer-pressure as any other college kid; only in their cases, the expectation for success is on overdrive and bad judgement calls or mistakes are significantly more impactful to their futures.

In some ways I think that the collective, “we” hold them to a higher standard than they could ever hope to meet

^^my old police Captain had two, TWO, of his kids apply to West Point. They were extremely smart and determined kids. No way would they have fucked up their life long dream of serving as an Officer to partake. Both were accepted. And I’m sure they are great officers.

From what I’ve read, these guys were football players. Now I know they all go to classes and will all become officers but you have to know they get a little different treatment just like any other college players. But just like other colleges, they were selected for their athletic abilities.

And any one of them that felt trying cocaine or any other illegal drug DESERVES to be marched into the front of the three sided square, have their ranks torn from their uniforms and stripped of any uniform and privileges and summilarly marched off the base. Their names should be stricken from the rolls and have their pictures and names blacked out of any and all records…as if they never existed. They are complete pieces of shit.

I wonder if we'll ever hear the outcome of the disciplinary proceedings? Or will the USMA quietly sweep this under the rug.

IMHO this should be a wake up call for West Point. If that many cadets were willing to do cocaine on spring break, there is likely a much bigger problem.

I say don't kick them out of the service. Make them serve out their contract as enlisted, starting at E-1. They would learn that their actions have consequences and the rest of the cadets would think twice before doing anything like this.

quote:

Originally posted by dgshooter:
I say don't kick them out of the service. Make them serve out their contract as enlisted, starting at E-1. They would learn that their actions have consequences and the rest of the cadets would think twice before doing anything like this.

No.

You don't 'punish' somebody by making them enlisted. It is a pivilege to serve in any rank.

You punish somebody by jailing and/or booting them out.

The cadets who did drugs are not worthy to wear ANY uniform (except prison orange).

I thought opiate overdose resulted in diminished, or stopped breathing, and "turning blue". Not cardiac arrest. If so, then artificial respiration is appropriate, not CPR. Many "beach" TV shows get it wrong when they perform CPR and chest compressions on drowning victims. Drowning fills the lungs with water, but doesn't stop the heart until it shuts down due to lack of oxygen.

Someone who goes into cardiac arrest outside a trauma center has very little chance of surviving even if CPR is administered - survival rate with CPR is about 10%. I suspect the cadets had slowed or stopped breathing, and a weak pulse with low BP, not cardiac arrest. The news probably has it wrong, or the people performing CPR misdiagnosed what was happening. Performing CPR on a beating heart is a bad idea and can cause more problems then it solves.