And that bailout money..

I have worked in the auto industry for 25 years. What's funny is how much people talk about the "greed" of the auto makers...

If you can make $70K trucks and sell every one you make, would you or would you make $30K cars and sell 85% of them?

I assure you, the auto manufacturers make what people buy. Even in '08 and '09 when the auto industry was collapsing and gas was crazy high.. the SUV and truck plants were running and the car plants were not.

The plant I work in now makes cars and SUVs. The cars aren't selling worth a shit. So we are adding SUV production.

It takes about 2 - 3 years and $1 billion to launch a new vehicle. All the designing, testing, setting up the plant, etc. Hell its a year just to test the paint.

I agree the unions are a problem and that sometimes these huge companies are slow to pivot, but if the people demanded small cars and only bought small cars, they would make them.

The market for luxury trucks and SUVS isn't slowing down, so that's what we will pump out. This isn't a social charity, its a business. And there are regulations on top of regulations on top of regulations. So you may make a lot of money doing something or having a certain option, but it will cost just as much to make the change so its not worth it.

A couple things. One, for all of you arguing that forced induction motors are better or the future, you completely missed the point of my initial comments. The Shelby Mustang, as well as most GT Mustangs ship with some version of the Coyote V8. Why? Because customers demand it. Drop an EcoBoost into a Shelby, regardless the HP ratings, and watch sales plummet. Yet Ford has opted to completely ignore Raptor buyers/owners demands for a V8 option. Stupid! Hell, RAM recognized the void and will be shoving a Hellcat motor in their up and coming T-Rex 1/2 ton truck. Second, the CAFE stuff is all but irrelevant when you're talking about the Raptor, a vehicle build in ultra small volumes. Should CAFE weigh in on F-150 considerations given the volume of F-150 trucks sold, absolutely. But shovel a V10 in the Raptor or a forced induction i3 and the overall impact to Ford's CAFE ratings is inconsequential given the number of vehicles we're talking about.

And as to pricing for new trucks being ridiculous, yes, some of that is due to the almost endless list of options available. However, don't forget all that lane assist, brake assist, variable traction, accident avoidance nonsense mandated by government. Personally I want none of this BS on my truck, but that's no longer an option. How many thousands of dollars to you think all this new tech costs for these vehicles?

The focus of this thread is not about the pricing Ford or any of the other manufacturers are using, its about Ford (and others) not listening to what their customers are demanding. The Ranger is a wonderful example of this given Ford's refusal to bring it back to the US market for years, seeding all that business to Toyota and GM. Now they're years late to the game trying to carve out a small piece of this market. Again, stupid!

There's a reason the last four Ford CEO's have all lost double digit market value for Ford. There are lethargic, detached, and no longer car guys running the company.

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Second, the CAFE stuff is all but irrelevant when you're talking about the Raptor, a vehicle build in ultra small volumes.

Ultra small volumes. You do realize more Raptors are sold a year than all of Nissans truck line?
So it does become a consideration and likely that Ford lumps the Raptor in with F150 sales and not a category of it’s own.

Being that pretty much no Raptor goes unsold with difficulty not sure adding a V8 would do anything for Ford.
I am guessing there is only a very very small number of people that refuse to buy aRaptoe because it is not a V8.

Make toys for the boys.

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Originally posted by Black92LX:

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Second, the CAFE stuff is all but irrelevant when you're talking about the Raptor, a vehicle build in ultra small volumes.

Ultra small volumes. You do realize more Raptors are sold a year than all of Nissans truck line? So it does become a consideration and likely that Ford lumps the Raptor in with F150 sales and not a category of it’s own.

Apples to oranges comparison. Ford wants to maximize CAFE compliance. All manufacturers do. So they accomplish that through their highest volume vehicles. For Ford that's obviously the F-150. But Raptor sales as a percentage of total F-150 sales is beyond insignificant, so regardless the engine shoved into the Raptor, it will have virtually no impact on their CAFE compliance overall. And might I remind you, the 5.0L V8 is still an option in the non-Raptor variants of the F-150 which the after market is taking full advanatge of in offering Raptor like accessories. Again, this isn't about CAFE compliance, its about Ford simply not listening to their customers when it comes to the Raptor.

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I am guessing there is only a very very small number of people that refuse to buy aRaptoe because it is not a V8.

Hit up some of the Ford/F-150 sites and read the continual bitching about the lack of a V8 option in the Raptor. And that's coming from a great many current Raptor owners. Yes, Ford does sell all the Raptors they currently build, but I really think its a horrible idea to ignore your customer's input. There may come a time where other manufacturers offer a competing vehicle to the Raptor, and it would be to Ford's benefit to try and build brand loyalty into their customers.

I want to see that new Bronco.

I own a 2003 F250 V10, it is a great truck, never lets me down.

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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
I have worked in the auto industry for 25 years. What's funny is how much people talk about the "greed" of the auto makers...

If you can make $70K trucks and sell every one you make, would you or would you make $30K cars and sell 85% of them?

I assure you, the auto manufacturers make what people buy. Even in '08 and '09 when the auto industry was collapsing and gas was crazy high.. the SUV and truck plants were running and the car plants were not.

The plant I work in now makes cars and SUVs. The cars aren't selling worth a shit. So we are adding SUV production.

It takes about 2 - 3 years and $1 billion to launch a new vehicle. All the designing, testing, setting up the plant, etc. Hell its a year just to test the paint.

I agree the unions are a problem and that sometimes these huge companies are slow to pivot, but if the people demanded small cars and only bought small cars, they would make them.

The market for luxury trucks and SUVS isn't slowing down, so that's what we will pump out. This isn't a social charity, its a business. And there are regulations on top of regulations on top of regulations. So you may make a lot of money doing something or having a certain option, but it will cost just as much to make the change so its not worth it.

Thank you.

It's only greed if someone else is making money. If the people who complained about greed knew anything about capitalism and economics they'd shut their stupid piehole right quick.

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Yes, Ford does sell all the Raptors they currently build,

And that ends all discussion about this specific topic. At the dealers I've seen they want 10K above list and they get it. They don't sit on the lots. So exactly why would any person of fiscal authority at ford want to spend money to put another engine in a product they already sell to capacity. Because internet people say they want one? I'd like a new F350 with a diesel from someone competent like cummings and a transmission by someone competent like Allison, but simply not going to happen.

I was a Ford man for decades, but not of recent years. Every Ford that I ever had always had issues and Ford would never step up. The last straw was my 2004 Ford F350 diesel that had multiple issues. Without going into all the details, the vehicle sucked and I was unable to sell at a fair price because of all the issues. SCREW FORD!

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Originally posted by bigdeal:

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Originally posted by lkdr1989:
Not a Ford owner but I do think there's a pretty big market for a Ranger with a V8 or Diesel option in the U.S..

Sorry my friend but Ford isn't listening to you (or me, or anyone else for that matter). There will only be one engine offered in the Ranger for the foreseeable future, that being the 2.3L EcoBoost four banger. Might be a good motor for the truck, or it might not be. But there will be no other options. Again, there has been overwhelming demand for an American built Ranger, yet Ford acts as though they're only going to dip their toe into this market to see where it goes before they commit to it fully. Stupid!

Oh, and Ford won't even commit to bringing the recently released Ranger Raptor to the US. Really! That truck with a tuned version of Ford's 2.7L EcoBoost V6 would sell as fast as Ford could build them, assuming they didn't get stupid with the sticker price. Again, you have to wonder about the people running the company and the truck division.

The issue you have with all of the motors and trucks you’ve mentioned has to do with the EPA and CAFE, not ford.

The eco boost they put in the raptor is a very stout motor in both the HP and Torque department.

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Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The issue you have with all of the motors and trucks you’ve mentioned has to do with the EPA and CAFE, not ford.

As I noted above this has nothing to do with CAFE. Ford offers the 5.0L Coyote engine in any XLT and up F-150 you want to configure. If CAFE was the issue, they'd never allow that configuration for the F-150, especially not those that are sold in huge numbers.

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The eco boost they put in the raptor is a very stout motor in both the HP and Torque department.

And again, you're missing the point. The EcoBoost motor is a very good, competent engine. I've not offered a single derogatory comment about it. But allowing a V8 upgrade to a $45k F-150 XLT truck while not allowing a similar engine upgrade in a $70k+ Raptor, especially when customers are clamoring for it, is absurd. It is however exactly what I've come to expect from Ford management.

Would you buy an $80,000 (just a guess including dealer markup) supercharged V-8 Raptor? Otherwise, you're basically saying you're done with Ford because they don't offer a vehicle you have no intention of buying.

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Originally posted by hrcjon:

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Yes, Ford does sell all the Raptors they currently build,

And that ends all discussion about this specific topic. At the dealers I've seen they want 10K above list and they get it. They don't sit on the lots. So exactly why would any person of fiscal authority at ford want to spend money to put another engine in a product they already sell to capacity. Because internet people say they want one? I'd like a new F350 with a diesel from someone competent like cummings and a transmission by someone competent like Allison, but simply not going to happen.

I think you summed it up well and I’m with you on that Cummins engine with an Allison in a Ford body.

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Originally posted by BigSwede:
And that bailout money..

Ford didn’t take bailout money...

Ford lost me years ago after I discovered they made cheap ass vehicles that break easily and are a PIA to work on yourself.

Go Toyota.

How about that Joey Logano fellow? After this past Sunday he has a shot at the Nascar championship title in his V8 powered Ford Fusion!

I came to the conclusion many years ago that to get a vehicle the way I want it, I have to modify the hell out if it anyway. I know a lot of guys want a V8 Raptor but if I were looking for that type of vehicle, I'd buy a regular 5.0 F150 under plan and have a whole lot of fun getting it there with tougher aftermarket parts! Void the warranty? Pay to play.

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Originally posted by RAMIUS:

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Originally posted by BigSwede:
And that bailout money..

Ford didn’t take bailout money...

Sure they did, through their lending arms. Ford credit, toyota credit, Chrysler credit etc. GMAC was gone by the time the bailout came.

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How about that Joey Logano fellow? After this past Sunday he has a shot at the Nascar championship title in his V8 powered Ford Fusion!

Which part of that car is a Ford Fusion? The windshield and taillights? Of wait, the taillights are stickers on that car.

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Originally posted by trapper189:

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How about that Joey Logano fellow? After this past Sunday he has a shot at the Nascar championship title in his V8 powered Ford Fusion!

Which part of that car is a Ford Fusion? The windshield and taillights? Of wait, the taillights are stickers on that car.

Except for the color it looks just like my 2017 turbo Fusion!

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Would you buy an $80,000 (just a guess including dealer markup) supercharged V-8 Raptor? Otherwise, you're basically saying you're done with Ford because they don't offer a vehicle you have no intention of buying.

The Raptor isn't the reason I'm at a crossroads with Ford. Nor is the Ranger, though I am far more curious about that truck. I've been around for a long time, and have routinely condemned companies who offer products they think we want, rather than listening to what consumers are asking for. There is no viable reason whatsoever for Ford not to offer a V8 option in the Raptor. None. You can get a Coyote V8 in the other Ford F-150 variants, so not offering it as an option in the Raptor is Ford deciding what customers will get. I recently drove a 2019 RAM Laramie truck with a friend who is truck shopping. I haven't done enough research to know if I'd buy a new RAM or not, but its easy to see the current RAM 1500 is an effort by Chrysler to offer customers a long list of the things they've been requesting in a 1/2 ton truck. The interior of the truck, along with its ergonomics is a huge leap forward for RAM, and IMO, superior to that offered by Ford in the F-150. RAM appears to be listening to its customers. Similarly, the Toyota Camry sells in insane numbers because Toyota listens to their customers and offers them a product that meets their needs and demands.

Financially, Ford is not healthy. Look it up. They're going to need to make some hard decisions in the near future to right themselves financially. I personally believe one of their primary problems right now is a management that are not car guys, and that do not listen closely to their potential customers.

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Originally posted by Tommydogg:
How about that Joey Logano fellow? After this past Sunday he has a shot at the Nascar championship title in his V8 powered Ford Fusion!

A car that no longer is in production by Ford.