Every year my boss makes me take him to a very cold place in the Alps, and every year it’s the worst trip I have to do. Not because it isn’t a nice place, but because it’s effing cold. It’s hard on the airplane, which is going to sit and cold soak and break, for two weeks, and it’s pretty boring for me. One of the things we do to occupy some time is hike.

Every year I’ve done it wrong. I usually just wore jeans and some sort of synthetic sweater under my winter coat. I’m usually sweaty, and some combination of chilled to the bone, and overheated all at the same time. This year, I’m attempting to do it a little more right. I’ve purchased some things, but I need your guidance as to what else I might want to pick up, before I leave on Tuesday. Temperatures are usually height teens to mid twenties, with an occasional mid thirties. Elevation is 5600 feet, and it’s usually pretty sunny.

This is what I have so far:
Base layers:

For a top, I picked up a few Old Navy go warm thermal tops, which I believe is the right gear.

For the bottoms, I picked up these tights, also from old navy. Both the tops and bottoms are moisture wicking, although the bottoms are uninsulated.

Mid layers:

This is where I fall short. I have a few 1/4 zip fleece pullovers, and my winter jacket is a north face soft shell with a thermoball liner. I can’t decide if the liner and shell are sufficient, or I need to add here.

For bottoms, I have no mid layer but I’m considering adding something like this. I’m really not sure what to do here.

For my outer layer:

I have a 3 in 1 north face soft shell, with the aforementioned removable liner. I assume this will be sufficient.

For the bottoms, I picked up these pants from Bass Pro Shop. My fear is that even with the base layer, this will still be too light of a pant to keep me warm.

So what say you, oh great and knowledgeable Sig Forum? I need your guidance!

Just get a canada goose expedition parka

Uninsulated bottoms and nylon pants, even hiking I think it's safe to say your legs/feet will be cold.


One thing to remember cold weather hiking/hunting is your hat and gloves are your thermostat. When you start to get warm take them off, when you start to cool down put them back on. Important to stay in the middle, not cold, not sweating.

If any of those has a tag that reads as much as 1% cotton, leave it behind. Base layer should be wicking synthetic such as polypropylene. Need not spend a fortune. Cotton kills.
Middle layer more of the same provided you have a good breathable insulating layer and shell. Gotta move moisture out and away while insulating. For the most part, fleece is everything it is cracked up to be when it comes to layered insulation. Gotta keep it all dry from the outside with a quality DWR breathable shell. I'm a big fan of pit zips for this. Don't neglect the hat no matter if you have hair or not. It too should wick and insulate.

quote:

Originally posted by SHOOTIN BLANKS:
If any of those has a tag that reads as much as 1% cotton, leave it behind. Base layer should be wicking synthetic such as polypropylene. Need not spend a fortune. Cotton kills.
Middle layer more of the same provided you have a good breathable insulating layer and shell. Gotta move moisture out and away while insulating. For the most part, fleece is everything it is cracked up to be when it comes to layered insulation. Gotta keep it all dry from the outside with a quality DWR breathable shell. I'm a big fan of pit zips for this. Don't neglect the hat no matter if you have hair or not. It too should wick and insulate.

No cotton in anything I listed, but you brought up some good points. I hadn’t considered a hat, as I usually just wear an acrylic watch cap, but I’ll look into picking one up tomorrow when I go glove shopping at REI.

On another note, what about underwear? I usually wear Haynes cotton underwear, but this may not be the best thing here. What do you recommend?

What the blank shooter said.
All the best dressed corpses wear cotton.

Hmmm. You are shopping at f'ing Old Navy? Correct? So your boss takes you to the Alps on his dime. You aren't complaining about that really, are you? You get to hike some of the coolest ground on earth. There is an REI in Conshohocken a few miles away from you. What the hell are you asking us for? How about getting off your ass and going over to talk with the experts? Buy what they recommend, and celebrate your good fortune! Old Navy . . .sheesh!

quote:

Originally posted by JJexp:

quote:

Originally posted by SHOOTIN BLANKS:
If any of those has a tag that reads as much as 1% cotton, leave it behind. Base layer should be wicking synthetic such as polypropylene. Need not spend a fortune. Cotton kills.
Middle layer more of the same provided you have a good breathable insulating layer and shell. Gotta move moisture out and away while insulating. For the most part, fleece is everything it is cracked up to be when it comes to layered insulation. Gotta keep it all dry from the outside with a quality DWR breathable shell. I'm a big fan of pit zips for this. Don't neglect the hat no matter if you have hair or not. It too should wick and insulate.

No cotton in anything I listed, but you brought up some good points. I hadn’t considered a hat, as I usually just wear an acrylic watch cap, but I’ll look into picking one up tomorrow when I go glove shopping at REI.

On another note, what about underwear? I usually wear Haynes cotton underwear, but this may not be the best thing here. What do you recommend?

I just saw that you are going to REI tomorrow. Belay my last. But get them to weigh in on your choices.

I’m asking you guys because I want answers from folks that may be experienced in such matters. Making decisions based off of what a hobbyist who works in retail, and is trying to sell me something, isn’t something I do without a little research.

You are on the right track. You don't need a mid layer on the bottom and will be stripping it off the top when you heat up.

You want a thin wicking layer against your skin and a breathable outer layer that you can vent before you start to sweat. Mid layers to preference, but strip it off before sweating.

I was infantry in the sub-arctic. I just wore mid weight polypropylene base layer and goretex pants and jacket.

Stay dry! Either from external water or sweat.

Base layer, polypropylene top and bottom. Midlayer fleece or wool and a shell layer to keep you dry but able to breath. Pit zips are great. A hood is nice, wool or fleece hat.

Wool socks, medium weight unless you’re sitting for long periods. Save the bulky down or Primaloft for sitting around.

Thin gloves if needed with an over mitten. Mittens are warmer.

Stay dry! Change socks and under layers as needed. Hike in, Change at lunch and hike out type of thing.

Look at the Army Extended Cold Weather Clothing System for ideas. If you’re active, a base layer and a shell layer is good unless it’s super cold. Take the mid layer or insulated layer along for sitting still. Don’t wait very long after you stop to add a layer, you want to stay warm not try to warm up.

Stay away from caffeine and alcohol, drink plenty of water just as in summer. Be a little cool starting out to help avoid over heating.

Cotton and down both suck when wet. Synthetic down like Primaloft is much better. Cotton or leather should only be an outer layer if at risk of tearing or destroying your synthetic stuff. Like around fire or heavy brush. If fire is a frequent concern, switch to wool if you can. I like it better anyway but it’s heavier and more expensive.

Stay dry! Water and wind resistant outer layers are very important as are wicking fabrics to pull the sweat away from the skin. A wet fleece jacket under a wind breaker and a dry base layer are way warmer than a wet cotton T-shirt under a super warm down jacket.

As mentioned above, no cotton.

Synthetic wool blend. Goose Down jacket is the warmest jacket I ever wore.

Wool cap/Hat is very important as are wool gloves.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but if your boss is there for two weeks, could you hop on a commercial flight to some place south and warm and sunny? Would your boss object, or must you be ready and available any time he wants to go somewhere else?

If you're in PA and can fly a plane across the ocean straight away, must be a big honkin' plane.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I know this doesn't answer your question, but if your boss is there for two weeks, could you hop on a commercial flight to some place south and warm and sunny? Would your boss object, or must you be ready and available any time he wants to go somewhere else?

If you're in PA and can fly a plane across the ocean straight away, must be a big honkin' plane.

I wish, but sadly no. We hang out wherever we are, and even though the boss has never needed to, he likes knowing that he could go, should the need arise. The airplane will do 7000nm.

Thanks everyone for your input. It looks like my shopping list will be for gloves, a hat, socks, and some underwear. There won’t be any all day events, usually just a few hours at most, so changing socks and the like aren’t really an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Just get a canada goose expedition parka

Where,s the like button.

Have one, Canada Goose is the way to go

I think a gore tex pants and jacket for the top layer. It will stop the wind and from getting wet and still breathes. I have a nice set from Colombia. I would wear this over jeans on the bottom and over a long sleeve shirt, thermal shirt, then gore tex jacket....

As others have said, stay away from cotton. And I would say also no Old Navy. For cold weather you need quality, REI will have some decent stuff.

Wool is your friend. I freakin hate acrylic anything. From the top...

100% wool watch cap. Any brand will do, as long as it’s all wool. Here’s one at REI

Smartwool brand has some very nice base layers. Again at REI since you are going there. Expensive but worth it. You only need 2, may be able to get by with one.

With temps in the 20s I would go light weight on the lower body. Only 2 layers. Do not wear the cotton workout pants as a layer! Way too heavy for those temps. Especially if you are active/hiking. Smartwool 150 base layer pants

If you currently are wearing a jacket, you need a parka, something that covers your hips/butt/below the waist. This keeps the cold off your back and blocks the wind better. L.L. Bean Baxter State Parka for a budget friendly one. or the Canada goose others have mentioned.

For shirts, any midweight sport shirt. This one. or a lightweight sweater.

Underwear—ditch the cotton. Check out ExOfficio.

REI will have good wool socks. Again don’t go too heavy. Gloves Medium weight fleece

I think you may be dressing too heavy for temps in the mid 20s to 30s. Especially if you are hiking and on the move. If it goes low teens and you are not as active add a layer up top. Adjust the layers and have good quality wool/polypropylene base layer to keep the moisture moving away from your body. Wet=cold and miserable.

Sounds like a fantastic trip. Get some quality clothing and enjoy the outdoors!

Base layer should be polypro, silk or wool. I have used all three and prefer silk for the mountains of northern New England. Polypro is the best deal, and is also the easiest to clean and dry. Wool is fantastic as a base layer, and I have a wool/polypro long sleeve base layer shirt that I love. It has a bit more loft than the silk and is lighter, but some folks can't wear wool next to their skin. YMMV.

Mid layers should be fleece or wool. Again, Prefer wool for upper body, because I find it breaths better than polypro and reduces the "sweaty but cold" phenomenon you describe. A decent rage wool sweater will do this. If you have to go to 4 layers, use the sweater under a fleece.

I usually don't do a mid layer on my legs, but when I have, it's silk under, with wool pants and wind pants of nylon or gore-tex over.

Outer layer is a nylon or gore tex over shell with LOTS of venting so that I can control core temperature. It sounds to me like you have the outer layer covered pretty well.

Feet will kill you. Wear two layers of socks. Silk against your foot, with good wool over that. Make sure your boots aren't too tight. If hiking in serious snow, get gaiters to keep snow out of the top of your boots and to keep your lower leg and ankles warm and dry.

Hat - Wool. Nothing is better except rabbit fur, and that is too damned warm for hiking in the mountains.

Gloves - Silk or polypro liners with insulated gore tex shells over. Mitttens are warmer than gloves, but less convenient.

Understand, though that I am a polar bear, and old and grumpy. I prefer natural materials next to my skin and the next layer out, with the high tech stuff for protection against the elements. As long as my feet and head are ok, I'm ok.

You might want a daypack so that you can take layers off if you get too hot.

quote:

Originally posted by JJexp:
Temperatures are usually height teens to mid twenties, with an occasional mid thirties

Your location claims "PA," so you are somewhat accustomed to cold weather, no? Those really aren't very cold temperatures, IMO. Particularly the high 20's to mid-30's. Unless it's blowing like snot.

I went out and cleared the driveway, yesterday, in nothing more than my Dan Post cowboy-style boots with light Smartwool socks, a pair of jeans, flannel shirt with a Costco 32° tee under it, a Columbia tri-season jacket and a cowboy hat. It was somewhere in the mid-20's, with a mild breeze out of somewhere west-ish.

No problem. Even when using the hand-held leaf blower to clear the cars and boat cover, and snow blew back at me.

Earlier this week I cleared the same area of powder, when it was blowing like stink, in high-tens to low-twenties temperatures. From inside-to-out: Costco 32° long underwear, heavy Smartwool knee-high socks, blue jeans, flannel shirt, Timberland boots, gaiters, tri-season jacket, balaclava, Timberland mittens.

IMHO, all you need is a good pair of boots, some over-the-calf Smartwool socks, light or medium weight polypropylene or other high-tech fabric long underwear, jeans, wool shirt, hooded tri-season jacket, mittens and a fleece skull cap (under the hood).

The Smartwool socks will keep your feet warm at the low end and they won't overheat at the higher end. With the option of using or not the long underwear, tri-season jacket liner and fleece cap or hood, you'll be able to adjust for temperature changes.

(If you're going to be active I'd stick with light-weight long underwear. If you're going to be mostly sedentary: Maybe medium. Also depends on how easily you get cold.)

If you expect to be in deeper snow, gaiters are a good bet. If you expect to be in a lot of blowing snow, replace the jeans with something not inclined to hold the snow and moisture. (Tho, except in prolonged exposure, I've never found jeans to be a problem.)

A word about socks. Many people pack their feet too tightly in their boots, restricting blood and air circulation. Doesn't matter how well the socks perform if you do that. Don't do that.

Gloves vs. mittens: Mittens are much warmer. I've got some light, non-wind-proof mittens, the ends of which fold back to expose your fingers, that are warmer than many of my gloves.

ArtieS' suggestion for a daypack in case you need to shed/add layers is a good one.

Moisture management is your problem.

Silk weight undergarment. Whatever pants you want jeans will do. A 300g fleece jacket, and a wind resistant outer layer that you do not wear unless it is raining or wind is cutting through to the skin. As soon as you feel the start of sweat lose the parka, and unzip the fleece.

The above ought to get you down to 10 degrees if your active, and there is no wind. I work outside all night and it's rare I need more than a vest over flannel shirt and mid weight long underwear.

A hat to cover your ears is a good plan too, as are mid weight gloves. It takes some air moving across your skin to get rid of the moisture, don't be afraid to be uncomfortable for the first 10 minutes or so.