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Yet another one. Lesson: Stay out of Turks and Caicos Login/Join 
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Thank you, mark. That will be most helpful.
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Exceptional Circumstances
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To those of you that imply that this would never happen to you, give me a break. Accidents and mistakes happen so take your holier than thou attitude and shove it up your ass. What has happened to me, Mike Evans, Michael Grim, Bryan Hagerich, and Ryan Watson was simply a mistake. There was no intent to commit a crime, no malice. Just a mistake. As far as this being a money grab, I'm not so sure. If it was, why not just heavily fine us and let us go. Ultimately TCI got $5,600 out of me after forcing me to defend myself for over two months. I spent $150k and they got $5600. Not much of a cash grab. Believe me when I say the Director of Public Prosecutions want Americans in jail, period.

The TSA now claims they are going to review airport security to see how they missed this. Bullshit. The State Department puts out statements like "When a U.S. citizen is arrested overseas, we stand ready to provide all appropriate consular assistance." Complete lie. They did absolutely jackshit for me when I was detained just like they are doing jackshit for Bryan and Ryan.

The real story that needs to come out is that the US embassy refuses to provide assistance because they helped or encouraged TCI to write these ridiculous laws in 2022.


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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Posts: 5915 | Location: Hampton Bays, NY | Registered: October 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by dave7378:
The real story that needs to come out is that the US embassy refuses to provide assistance because they helped or encouraged TCI to write these ridiculous laws in 2022.
You may have told me this but I don't recall, and I was under the impression that this law was much older than 2022.

At any rate, even though I previously believed this was all about money, your argument to the contrary makes perfect sense, and it comes down to T&C authorities wanting to imprison American citizens.

How do other other island destinations for American citizens react to things such as a few rounds of ammo found in baggage?

It is no surprise to me that Biden's State Department will be of no assistance to Americans charged with crimes involving firearms or ammunition, even when there is clearly no intent.
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Baroque Bloke
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The DailyMail isn’t quite the MSM, but provides some illumination to John Q. Public, so I’m happy to see it:

“Another American tourist [Tyler Wenrich] is facing a decade behind bars in Turks and Caicos after ammunition was found in his luggage as he got off a cruise ship.
………
His arrest comes just weeks after Oklahoma father-of-two Ryan Watson was charged with the same offense, as a handful of deer hunting bullets were found in his carry-on after American TSA missed them on his departing flight. …”

DailyMail article:
https://mol.im/a/13354383



Serious about crackers
 
Posts: 9030 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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Are the rounds the same type that their police and military use? Seems fishy this is all happening at a more increasing pace, or is it just finally being widely reported?
 
Posts: 4243 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
It is no surprise to me that Biden's State Department will be of no assistance to Americans charged with crimes involving firearms or ammunition, even when there is clearly no intent.

I learned a lot in this thread.

It almost seems that the current U.S. govt. is complicit in the TCI laws pertaining to ammunition and tourists, which seems to primarily focus on American citizens. And to stretch it even further, conservative citizens who make up a large percentage of the U.S. gun owners.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 16731 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by DanH:
Are the rounds the same type that their police and military use? Seems fishy this is all happening at a more increasing pace, or is it just finally being widely reported?
What are you suggesting?
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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Before I'd suggest they were throwing rounds into luggage since from all the recent reports I've read that everyone was being jailed/fined when leaving the country. Was anyone dinged coming into T and C with ammo or has it been leaving the islands this issue comes up?
 
Posts: 4243 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Why are you asking if the ammunition is the same type police and military use?

You really don't want to try to turn all of this into some sort of conspiracy.
quote:
Was anyone dinged coming into T and C with ammo or has it been leaving the islands this issue comes up?
If you've read my comments in this thread, you should already have the answer to that question.
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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I really don't which is why I'm wondering if this has been caught at different points of time. And you said it yourself, this is an area that doesn't like Americans. And this is the most I'll say on this matter even if more information comes out but I am interested on when these violations are caught.
 
Posts: 4243 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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quote:
Originally posted by DanH:
I am interested on when these violations are caught.
It's unfortunate this information- spelled out explicitly and more than once- is not available in this thread.
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dances With
Tornados
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Para, please if you don't mind:

Of course we're talking about T&C but for example let's talk about Mexico for a moment. I don't know if perhaps T&C has rules of ammo size or not, but just for conversation, if you don't mind Para, here's this.

^^^^^ Mexican citizens are prohibited from owning a weapon ammo size above .38 caliber. 9mm and larger is reserved for the Military only.

I don't have much time now to look up and quote more about this, but here is this:

"Civilians are only authorized to carry hunting rifles and shotguns, and handguns with a caliber equal or inferior to . 38 (9 mm weapons are not permitted for civilian use) with a permit from SEDENA (Secretaría de Defensa Nacional).

Additionally, even though Mexican citizens have a so called Mexican Constitutional right to buy and own a weapon, there are only TWO places to go to buy such weapons. (A right that is almost useless because one must travel up to great distances to 1 of the 2 places in Mexico to buy.)

If a Mexican is caught with "prohibited" size ammo instead of "allowed" ammo size, then the question is valid.

Of course the law does not seem to apply to the Cartels and other bad actors in Mexico, unless perhaps "Mordida" is paid. Of course it's still illegal, but $$$ talk in Mexico.

Thanks Para.
.
 
Posts: 11869 | Registered: October 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Exceptional Circumstances
Picture of dave7378
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by dave7378:
The real story that needs to come out is that the US embassy refuses to provide assistance because they helped or encouraged TCI to write these ridiculous laws in 2022.
You may have told me this but I don't recall, and I was under the impression that this law was much older than 2022.

At any rate, even though I previously believed this was all about money, your argument to the contrary makes perfect sense, and it comes down to T&C authorities wanting to imprison American citizens.

How do other other island destinations for American citizens react to things such as a few rounds of ammo found in baggage?

It is no surprise to me that Biden's State Department will be of no assistance to Americans charged with crimes involving firearms or ammunition, even when there is clearly no intent.


The mandatory minimum sentence was increased in 2022 from 9 to 12 years. I have it on good authority that the US Embassy assisted in the law revision in 2022. I have a very wealthy client who was trying to assist me during my time there. He told me that when he contacted the embassy he was plainly told there would be no assistance. He stated something to the effect of " we helped them write those laws, why would we help him get out of them" Now compare that to the level of help they gave to me and every American after me.


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Posts: 5915 | Location: Hampton Bays, NY | Registered: October 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I personally believe that this is Part of an efforts globally to ostracize firearms ownership. Firearms ownership is deeply ingrained in American culture and I’d argue that such reliance on citizenry having the tools to overthrow a tyrannical government is quite uniquely American. I don’t know if it’s a desire to try to rid American culture of that thought process, or prevent it from spreading, but I kind of see it as a statement that if you have guns, or even like guns and think that you should be able to own them - we don’t want you in our country. It’s almost like gun owners are so detested that they don’t even want a supporter of gun ownership to visit their country. That might seem kind of a grandiose statement, but I believe that those that detest accountability of government to its citizenry, both here and abroad, could absolutely be working to create policies that would try to push that world view. I could absolutely see that being on display in Turks and Caicos.




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5584 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
I personally believe that this is Part of an efforts globally to ostracize firearms ownership.
So, what you're saying is...

It's a conspiracy. A global conspiracy.

Do I have that right?
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Lt CHEG
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
I personally believe that this is Part of an efforts globally to ostracize firearms ownership.
So, what you're saying is...

It's a conspiracy. A global conspiracy.

Do I have that right?


I don’t think conspiracy is the term I would use. I would characterize it as more akin to countries trying to ostracize Israel for the way in which they have defended themselves against Hamas. To me, conspiracy implies something hidden, and I don’t know that I’d say that they are hiding anything about the view of American style gun ownership. I guess I’d maybe describe it as the next step after all the UN treaties trying to limit gun ownership have proven unsuccessful. I’d view it as a “shunning” of the unenlightened gun owners, by the supposed enlightened intellectuals of the world.

I guess I would view this as perhaps an organized effort, maybe even a cooperative effort by some nations and organizations. I don’t believe that there is anything particularly hidden or surreptitious about these laws though, so I wouldn’t characterize it as a conspiracy. I absolutely believe that there is a global movement by many nations to eliminate American style firearms ownership, but the organizations and nation states that are pushing that agenda haven’t been hiding their views and efforts to accomplish those views. Perhaps a more succinct explanation of my thoughts is that I do not believe that this is some sort of trilateral commission, Bildeberg group, Skull and Bones hidden plan to eliminate gun ownership by Americans.




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5584 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
come and take it
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Yet another one. I do have friends that have asked me to join them on vacation in T&C. I'm not ever going now.

Virginia EMT arrested for 2 bullets in his backpack.

A 30-year-old U.S. man was arrested in Turks and Caicos last weekend after ammunition was allegedly found in his luggage, CBS News has learned, making him the latest of several Americans in recent months who found themselves in a similar predicament in the British territory.

Tyler Wenrich was taken into custody after officials allegedly found two bullets in his backpack April 20 as he was about to board a cruise ship.

Possessing a gun or ammunition is prohibited in Turks and Caicos, but tourists were previously often able to just pay a fine. In February, however, a court order mandated that even tourists in the process of leaving the country are subject to prison time.

The Virginia EMT and father now faces the potential of a mandatory minimum prison sentence of up to 12 years.

"I feel like, as a very honest mistake, that 12 years is absurd," his wife, Jeriann Wenrich, told CBS News Friday.

Wenrich says her husband had been on the island for less than a day when the arrest occurred.

"My son's only 18 months old, and I just don't want to him to grow up without a dad," Wenrich said.

There are now at least four American tourists facing the possibility of lengthy prison sentences for similar charges, including a 72-year-old man, Michael Lee Evans, who was arrested in December and pled guilty to possession of seven rounds of ammo. He appeared before the court on Wednesday via a video conference link. Currently on bail in the U.S. for medical reasons, Evans has a sentencing hearing in June. A fifth person, Michael Grim of Indiana, served nearly six months in prison after he pleaded guilty to mistakenly bringing ammo in his checked luggage for a vacation.

Ryan Watson, a 40-year-old father of two from Oklahoma, was released from a Turks and Caicos jail on $15,000 bond Wednesday. Following a birthday vacation with his wife, he was arrested April 12 when airport security allegedly found four rounds of hunting ammo in his carry-on bag earlier this month.

His wife, Valerie Watson, flew home to Oklahoma Tuesday after learning she would not be charged. However, as part of his bond agreement, her husband must remain on the island and check in every Tuesday and Thursday at the Grace Bay Police Station while his case moves forward.

In an interview Friday from the island, Ryan Watson told CBS News that he checked the bag before he packed it.

"I opened it up and kind of give it a little shimmy, didn't see anything, didn't hear anything," he said.

TSA also acknowledged that officers missed the ammo when Watson's bag was screened at the checkpoint on April 7 at Will Rogers World Airport in Oklahoma City.

In a statement provided to CBS News Friday, a TSA spokesperson said that "four rounds of ammunition were not detected" in Watson's bag "during the security screening."

The spokesperson said that "an oversight occurred that the agency is addressing internally."

"It was my mistake," Ryan Watson said. "It was very innocent. And I just pray that, compassion and consideration, because there was zero criminal intent."

In a statement Friday, the Turks and Caicos government said that it "reserves the right to enforce its legislation and all visitors must follow its law enforcement procedures."

Following the CBS News report on Ryan Watson earlier this week, the State Department reissued a warning to American tourists traveling to Turks and Caicos to "carefully check their luggage for stray ammunition or forgotten weapons."




I have a few SIGs.
 
Posts: 1893 | Location: Texan north of the Red River | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
I personally believe that this is Part of an efforts globally to ostracize firearms ownership. Firearms ownership is deeply ingrained in American culture and I’d argue that such reliance on citizenry having the tools to overthrow a tyrannical government is quite uniquely American. I don’t know if it’s a desire to try to rid American culture of that thought process, or prevent it from spreading, but I kind of see it as a statement that if you have guns, or even like guns and think that you should be able to own them - we don’t want you in our country. It’s almost like gun owners are so detested that they don’t even want a supporter of gun ownership to visit their country. That might seem kind of a grandiose statement, but I believe that those that detest accountability of government to its citizenry, both here and abroad, could absolutely be working to create policies that would try to push that world view. I could absolutely see that being on display in Turks and Caicos.


Certainly seems to be a lot of evidence this is true.

For myself, thank you all for the heads up, I'll never go to T or C now and avoid this place like the plague. This is some horrific bullshit. It's a reminder to be cautions when traveling anywhere else as well.
 
Posts: 1925 | Location: Pacific Northwet | Registered: August 01, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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For the time being, let's limit the "global conspiracy" to the Turks & Caicos, please.
 
Posts: 107786 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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