I have a 9 yr old. He loves hockey. He plays to the level of his team, is extremely fast, and has potential untapped talent. The group he is associated with has 3 teams. They chose for teams, and he was not on the team with all the board members children his age, but on an up and coming mite 2 team (1 of 3). After coaches were notified of the rosters, I took the time to explain my son’s new team to him (my husband is a coach), that he would be a leader (he was older than other mite 2s on his new team).. and to accept his new role vs building rapport with all the boys that would be moving to squirts. He understood and was getting excited about his new teammates- his old coach had him for 2 years and did nothing with him, and he never developed friendships with the other kids.. let’s call that Team 2. Team 1 has the board member children, Team 3 is up and coming. He was assigned to Team 3.

Now: there were two boys both assigned to Team 1 and Team 2 (a.k.a. a slash in between their names like they couldn’t decide when the rosters went out)- one was finally assigned Team 1, the other was assigned to Team 2 -and instead of accepting the Team 2 assignation, his dad (board member) decided to bump my son from Team 3 and put him back on Team 2 where he’s been for the last two years with the coach that doesn’t work him and the kids who don’t hang out. Because of “friends”. If that was the case, why not put him there in the first place instead of my boy?

Team 1 board member children
Team 2 not the board member children * my son is now being moved after the fact.
Team 3 up and coming new mite 2 children (board members but won’t move to squirts yet) * my son was assigned*

What would you do?

Whatever your son is comfortable with. I had two children who played sports from elementary school through college. There is more parental involvement and meddling the younger they are. Remember they are out to have fun not be the next Wayne Gretsky.

Here in Minnesota hockey is religion. Serious, religion. It is highly political from the Mites all the way through high school. Here if you are not in skates at three years old and don't go to all the summer camps you don't have a prayer. Often times it's not about how good your kid may be it's about who you know. We just recently had one of the best high school coaches of thirty plus years pull the plug citing parent pressures and pressures and influencing from school administrators.

Parents get heavily invested in their kids hockey and it gets uber competitive. Hell with the National Guard you need a crowd dispersed send in the hockey parents and tell them those people are responsible for their kid not getting ice time! Texas high school football has nothing on Minnesota high school hockey.

I'm happy my boys chose soccer and not hockey. Sorry I have no real answer for you and I'm not sure there is one. Best of luck to you.

When you say the coach doesn’t work with him, what does that mean specifically? Does your son get playing time on this team 2 and the coach doesn’t teach him or is he sitting the bench? When you say he didn’t make friends with these kids having been on this team for a while, why? Is he being shunned by the other kids? There is a lot to unpack in what you wrote and it’s not all clearly spelled out.


Regardless, youth sports leagues/associations/groups(as you call them) are typically worse the more parents are involved. You are better off finding a for profit team or club than a league run by volunteer parents who all want their little seed to be the beneficiary of the hours they spend as volunteers.


Lastly, as long as he is enjoying hockey it doesn’t matter at 9 years old. I have been there with two kids and I know it seems super important and you will agonize over unrealized potential. Trust me, it doesn’t matter and won’t for a few years. Just let him play, let him have fun and let the chips fall where they may. If he is not getting to play and is not having fun then find a new place to play.

If he has long term potential it will reveal itself around he ages of 14 to 16. Anything before that is wild speculation and parental fantasies run amuck. I have seen 9 year old sure fire future D1 studs get cut from the freshman team later on and kids who got picked last, sat the bench and had no shot when they were 9,10,11 end up actually signing a D1 scholarship.

Let the kid decide. The experience will teach him to make choices and to think about those choices.
Otherwise, it's just a game the parents get all wound up over.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Whatever your son is comfortable with. I had two children who played sports from elementary school through college. There is more parental involvement and meddling the younger they are. Remember they are out to have fun not be the next Wayne Gretsky.

This

Keep improving and focusing on the fundamentals.

Make sure it stays fun. In time the true talent will be harder to 'mask' by league politics and parental over-involvement.

-------------------

Having had a son who played youth hockey for eight years and having coached the same I would say the focus is on players having fun and getting ice time to develop skating and puck skills during skill based activities and games at practice. I don't think any coach should be "working" a player at age nine. I would assume that you are describing a house league and not a travel team...

We always had a lottery to pick players in our house league so most teams ended up with a degree of balance.

Go to https://www.usahockey.com. Lots of good info there.

For example..

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/att...056178099.1637371324

I would hope the league your son is in follows the progressions that all coaches test on to allow them to be on the ice as a certified coach. These are all outlined and governed by the guidelines set forth at USA Hockey.

For example…

https://www.usahockey.com/coachingcertification

This message has been edited. Last edited by: x0225095,

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Whatever your son is comfortable with. I had two children who played sports from elementary school through college. There is more parental involvement and meddling the younger they are. Remember they are out to have fun not be the next Wayne Gretsky.

I agree. While I love my boy, I don’t think I’m blind enough to believe he’s the next Wayne, but who’s to say? He’s pretty young for anyone to make that call, and last year the same dad had this same kid on our team and just didn’t want his boy to be a goalie, so guess who had to keep taking turns in the net to accommodate so that kid could skill build? Seemed like our boy. Now this year that dad doesn’t like the placement of his son on a team, so who gets to take the hit? Looks like our boy again.
And I just looked up good old dad and surprise, surprise… looks like he’s the coach of a local high school sports team. In the part of town all of the kids on the hockey team would attend if we stay in public school. Looks like we never had a chance when we were asked if we’d like to switch spots and we said “no, thank you”…

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
When you say the coach doesn’t work with him, what does that mean specifically? Does your son get playing time on this team 2 and the coach doesn’t teach him or is he sitting the bench? When you say he didn’t make friends with these kids having been on this team for a while, why? Is he being shunned by the other kids? There is a lot to unpack in what you wrote and it’s not all clearly spelled out.


Regardless, youth sports leagues/associations/groups(as you call them) are typically worse the more parents are involved. You are better off finding a for profit team or club than a league run by volunteer parents who all want their little seed to be the beneficiary of the hours they spend as volunteers.


Lastly, as long as he is enjoying hockey it doesn’t matter at 9 years old. I have been there with two kids and I know it seems super important and you will agonize over unrealized potential. Trust me, it doesn’t matter and won’t for a few years. Just let him play, let him have fun and let the chips fall where they may. If he is not getting to play and is not having fun then find a new place to play.

If he has long term potential it will reveal itself around he ages of 14 to 16. Anything before that is wild speculation and parental fantasies run amuck. I have seen 9 year old sure fire future D1 studs get cut from the freshman team later on and kids who got picked last, sat the bench and had no shot when they were 9,10,11 end up actually signing a D1 scholarship.

See my response to zsmichael. The coach my son’s had for the last 2 years is a nice guy. That said, we’ve had him for 2 years and he’s never shown any undo interest in developing or building our boy, except to use him to fill in where other parents don’t want their kids to be. They all have a chance to be on the ice, but he had clear favs, his own kids being more important (I don’t blame him for that, he’s volunteering to coach for a reason). All the coaches have kids on the ice.

I wouldn’t say there’s been shunning so much as “cliqueing”. Some of these kids dads work together, live by each other, and encourage/foster relationships between their kids- can’t say we are well-to-do enough/live in the right neighborhood/go to the right school.. matter of fact, that’s supposedly one of the reasons the boys’ dad wanted to switch teams, so they could “ride share”. Why this wasn’t requested by daddio from the very start is beyond me-except for what was already stated in the OP.. that his kid didn’t get the placement he hoped so he bumped my kid. Which is where I start to see red. We saw this new team as a new opportunity to make friends and build relationships. And we are being railroaded right back to where we were. Nah, he wasn’t having too much fun last year, not because he couldn’t play- he was stuck in the net a lot of the time; due to COVID there weren’t many opportunities to build relationships; the already existing cliques; but we had hoped this year would be different.

I don't know if my story will be helpful but I was in a similar situation but with soccer. From age 3 I have played soccer and have played every position. Entering high school I was on a travel team playing sweeper and we led the league with the lowest goals against. For the school team I played striker and I was a leading goal scorer.

I complete middle school and my freshman year of high school I don't make the team... varsity or JV. Some really good players on both the travel and middle school team I was on didn't make it either. Apparently the coaches played politics and kids of people they knew make the team (which is probably why my school never won anything, ever). Once I saw what I was up against I quit school soccer. I kept playing but wouldn't play for the school team. I remember one time the varsity team was playing and I was in a pickup game over on the next field. The coach decided to have a friendly scrimmage and we creamed them. Did you think he asked me to try out / join the team after I put a clinic on their defense? Nope. Like I said before the varsity team never had a winning record.

I went on and have played in literally 1000s of games since high school. Even in my 30s I was playing 4-5 games a week. The point of my story is that when I realized how biased the school coaches were I decided I wasn't going to play their game. At the same time I wasn't going to give up the game I loved so I found other places to play. I don't regret not trying to make a career out of soccer. As good as I was I don't think I'm top 0.1% in the world so I played for fun and the love of the game.

If your son is truly exceptional and you believe he's pro level then you have some tough decisions to make and I can't help you there. But if he's really really good and loves the game I'd find a way for him to keep playing without riding a bench or getting sucked into the coach's politics.

I do realize that hockey is an expensive sport with ice time and all so there may not be as many pick up games but I know plenty of guys who were playing hockey well into their 50s via leagues and what not. I would imagine there's got to be alternatives than just the school team.

As background I've coached all levels of hockey including H.S. Varsity & Collegiate.

This is Mite hockey. The goal of Mite hockey is to teach the fundamentals of the game and instill the fun of the sport. The kids he is playing with now, he likely won't be playing with next year, but likely will again in a year or two, or later down the road.

That 'super star' kid this year, will get lost in the shuffle in the next year, or perhaps the one after that. It's rare to see a kid be 'that good' his entire playing career.

The child is way less aware of situations than the parent is, and likely only very aware of it because the parent makes it a constant topic and is wound up like an 8 day clock.

I saw a reference to the coach not working with your son. I can tell you from experience, having 15-20 9 year olds on the ice in a practice or on a bench in a game is like herding cats with severe ADD who just drank a saucer full of Red Bull. Most coaches at that level aren't the most experienced unless they are a retread (coached to a higher level with an older son and have come back to work with a younger child). Not only are they dealing with a mess of kids that rarely pay attention but also parents who are calling/emailing every day wanting to know why their kid isn't getting 50 minutes of ice time and how he's expected to make it to the NHL..... On top of that all of the team, league, and board politics to deal with. AND on top of ALL that, ever increasing demands from USA hockey for them to take more and more training modules/sessions/seminars. It's a miracle anyone even VOLUNTEERS any more.


I was talking to Chris Chelios at a rink once and a hockey mom interrupted us with a burning question. She wanted to know how many championship teams Chelly had played on as a kid and if she should look elsewhere for her son as the current team was about .500. He gave me that 'look' and gave her the short version on how he was on several teams as a kid that couldn't buy a win if they pooled all of their snack money. She was stunned. Yeah, a Hall of Fame NHL player with three cups was on teams that were horrible.

Of all the players I know who played D1 NCAA, minors, or made it to play up in the show, they all had one thing in common. An insatiable drive to make it. But it never started at 9 years old.

Relax.... have him work hard on the ice and fun with this season as much as he can. Next year will be different.

At the younger levels there are only three questions you should be asking your kid after a game or practice.
1. What did you learn?
2. Did you have fun?
3. What do you want to eat/drink?

Thanks to all who replied. Just doing a slow burn on this, and the fact that the shuffling all took place behind our back without a word until a decision was made. THEN and only then was it even suggested to us that our son switch teams, and would we like to consider that?

They just assumed we would suck it up and agree, I guess. Now we get to look like assholes for saying no, and making them uncomfortable - it pisses me off and concerns me how my son will be treated by both other players and coaches. If they were going to have to appease someone, why not have those special people pass around the rosters amongst themselves first before sharing with the rest of us?

Fascinating shit. I’m thrilling for baseball season. What a bunch of assholes these dads are. I honestly didn’t think this bullshit started so young- that we’d have a few more years to just PLAY and have fun.

Hildur- thanks for your input. I appreciate that insight. I believe he’ll keep playing. Nah, I don’t think he’s pro level, he just wants to be in there - he’s a sweet kid, I don’t know if he has the desire to really dig in there and fight, but he likes to play.

Bullshit like this is why my kid is playing a solo sport. Archery, Kendo, Jujitsu, Fencing, Track and Field, whatever...so long as I don't have to put up with politics and other kids don't get in the way of what my kid can achieve.

Rightwire,
Those actually are the 3 questions we ask after every event he attends, be it hockey, baseball, running, whatever.

The angering part for me is the maneuvering that’s being done by the dads/coaches/“board”. We intended to stick where we got originally placed, no matter where- because we truly thought the club was reasonably fair.

The behind the scenes bullshit is what’s pissing me off - “Ah, jimmy doesn’t want to be on THAT team, so we have to move YOU… AFTER accommodating this asshole of a dad last year cuz “jimmy doesn’t WANT to play goalie” (note, he and my son were on the same team last year).

After I’ve already explained to my kid that he wasn’t going to play with the kids he considered his friends (because we never requested he be with specific kids, we just wanted him to play and hoped for the best) and told him who he’s going to be playing with, built him up, etc, now I have to explain that no, actually, you aren’t playing with those kids, either.
And if you think he can’t recognize who’s good and who isn’t, well, you’d be wrong. He’s identified everybody he considers a “good” player already this year..so he is going to be wondering why. That’s what sucks most of all.

I don’t think he should have to figure that out at 9. He knows none of this. I still haven’t told him. And I hear what you’re saying, trust me, he’ll hear none of this vent. We just want him to have fun and make friends, but I HATE feeling manipulated, or catering to a whiny bitch of a dad.

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
When you say the coach doesn’t work with him, what does that mean specifically? Does your son get playing time on this team 2 and the coach doesn’t teach him or is he sitting the bench? When you say he didn’t make friends with these kids having been on this team for a while, why? Is he being shunned by the other kids? There is a lot to unpack in what you wrote and it’s not all clearly spelled out.


Regardless, youth sports leagues/associations/groups(as you call them) are typically worse the more parents are involved. You are better off finding a for profit team or club than a league run by volunteer parents who all want their little seed to be the beneficiary of the hours they spend as volunteers.


Lastly, as long as he is enjoying hockey it doesn’t matter at 9 years old. I have been there with two kids and I know it seems super important and you will agonize over unrealized potential. Trust me, it doesn’t matter and won’t for a few years. Just let him play, let him have fun and let the chips fall where they may. If he is not getting to play and is not having fun then find a new place to play.

If he has long term potential it will reveal itself around he ages of 14 to 16. Anything before that is wild speculation and parental fantasies run amuck. I have seen 9 year old sure fire future D1 studs get cut from the freshman team later on and kids who got picked last, sat the bench and had no shot when they were 9,10,11 end up actually signing a D1 scholarship.

See my response to zsmichael. The coach my son’s had for the last 2 years is a nice guy. That said, we’ve had him for 2 years and he’s never shown any undo interest in developing or building our boy, except to use him to fill in where other parents don’t want their kids to be. They all have a chance to be on the ice, but he had clear favs, his own kids being more important (I don’t blame him for that, he’s volunteering to coach for a reason). All the coaches have kids on the ice.

I wouldn’t say there’s been shunning so much as “cliqueing”. Some of these kids dads work together, live by each other, and encourage/foster relationships between their kids- can’t say we are well-to-do enough/live in the right neighborhood/go to the right school.. matter of fact, that’s supposedly one of the reasons the boys’ dad wanted to switch teams, so they could “ride share”. Why this wasn’t requested by daddio from the very start is beyond me-except for what was already stated in the OP.. that his kid didn’t get the placement he hoped so he bumped my kid. Which is where I start to see red. We saw this new team as a new opportunity to make friends and build relationships. And we are being railroaded right back to where we were. Nah, he wasn’t having too much fun last year, not because he couldn’t play- he was stuck in the net a lot of the time; due to COVID there weren’t many opportunities to build relationships; the already existing cliques; but we had hoped this year would be different.

It seems pretty clear that things will not improve based on this info. Time to move on….

you sound very upset and perhaps rightfully so

just make sure -- as you have said -- none of this boils over onto him

keep telling yourself -- 'it's supposed to be fun' at that age. playing purely for the love of the game. yes -- the adults can ruin it and sadly you sound in that type of situation

but you have to accept that and seek to find an acceptable solution. as other have said -- and i concur -- if he truly loves the game and has true talent -- it WILL come out of him in time. my expertise is with youth soccer but i saw it countless times as kids get older, social distractions, family issues, motivation, etc... it was really fun to watch kids i coached play into middle school, travel, then into high school and in a couple cases into college level.

lastly -- there is the 'if you can't beat 'em - join 'em' approach'. which is to make better personal friends with the main league personalities. you get better results with honey than vinegar. most people are very fond of flattery -- in one league we went to after having moved to a new location -- i approached one of the main league guys one-on-one and asked how i could get involved. he liked that i thought highly enough to assist vs. simply 'judging' and from there i was a bit more of an 'insider'... it is what it is...

good luck and try to take the long view and not get overly 'torqued' about the current scene.

the phrase we used was 'keep the kids in the game' meaning : just keep playing. this crap works itself out...

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I did the youth hockey thing years ago. Here's what I'd do different if I had it all to do over again. You can't change anything. The internal cliques and power struggles and politics of the group are not worth the effort. Yes, its unfair and you think it should be after watching your check book catch fire equipping your kid. Just let your kid play where he wants and avoid all the other shit. My son played for two years and then started his I'm going to suck at school phase which was way more unfun. Today he's married and giving me grand babies, and he plays in a beer league which thrills me to no end.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goose5,

Thanks, guys- yesterday was a traveling day, so I didn’t get too much time to process through your thoughts. I’m not going to clique. I don’t do well at that, and I’m too honest for false flattery to last long..you can see right through me.

I think he’ll still want to play, but I never got the requested call back from the coordinator with a more thorough explanation on how this all worked. I’m disappointed in the adult behavior, and I can only assume the kid behavior will follow, as these are their children and I’m sure they hear chatter.
Thanks for hearing me out and providing valuable insight.

quote:

What would you do?

Buy them a snowboard or a downhill bike or a motocross bike. Get them involved in a sport where individual performance and talent actually matter. As opposed to whoever is on the board or whose dad is a coach or whose mom blew the superintendent, or any of that other cool-kids clique bullshit.

Zero tolerance for this kind of stuff. I've seen it even in my podunk district. The results, long-term (my kids are out of school and gone) have been real local talent leaving team sports and finding their niche elsewhere.