I went back to college to finish a BS to accept a commission, then while waiting on AMS the position got deleted due to BRAC. Then I turned 35, and aged out.

I get it. That's just one example of the big old fist in the ass, you've obviously experienced your share of them.

A college degree isn't worthless, it's a tool in a box of tools. Your military experience means little to nothing to an ungrateful nation. That's nothing new. In multiple civilian settings it is seen as a liability. Civilians don't speak the same language, and they are intimidated at best, judgemental assholes at worse for a variety of reasons (jealousy, misunderstanding, personal regret, or just plain old brainwashed by hollyweird).

If you're a veteran worth half a shit, apply your tools, take control of your own life, and find a way to succeed. You aren't the first one, you aren't the only one, you won't be the last one to go through the same thing. Leverage your tools (experience, training, education, & network) to accomplish the mission.
Engage your brain and find a solution.

This pity party you're throwing is unbecoming, and you are better than this. Get over your tantrum, suck it up, pick a direction and execute a plan. Asking for help is fine, but you're the only one that can do the work.

Losing your vehicle and losing your house sucks. Being homeless sucks. I've been there. I've done both. Keep moving, keep doing, keep waking up and working toward a goal. No one owes you anything, life isn't fair, stop beating on a door that is closed to you. Stop looking to civilians to employ you. Develop a huscle, develop a plan, get it done. Relocate if you need to. Do some time in a domiciliary if you need to (VA homeless shelter). Downsize/downgrade to a level that involves no payments and no debt. Work your veteran network.

Definitely stop thinking the solutions will be found in civilian advice and civilian owned companies. The lions do not concern themselves with the opinions of the sheep.

I have a good friend who with a different set of circumstances when he was 17 or 18 probably would've ended up an engineer like me. Instead, he got involved in the oil & gas trades like his Dad and was a hard worker like his Dad. However, he was a people person, an organizer, a meticulous planner, a leader, etc so worked his way up through the trades (helper, worker, lead, foreman, superintendent, construction manager, oil & gas consultant for multi-billion dollar megaprojects, etc).

I'm a senior engineer at a large, multinational oil & gas firm and my recommendations and decisions have global impact. My buddy makes 150% more than I do. That is not a typo. Oil and gas firms are full of engineers, but there is a real shortage of the been there done that trades people with skills like my buddy.

I wrote all of the above to say don't knock the trades. You have education and leadership skills that people around you are unlikely to have so there is opportunity to standout and work your way up. Work the details and be more organized than your peers so that your projects make your employer more money than your peers. Construction trades are full of ornery bastards, but they tend to plateau rather quickly. However, a person with ethics, people skills, organization & planning skills, etc. will get more opportunities to do something bigger. Be the latter and play the long game.

It's not what you know, it's who you know. And it helps to be upbeat and likable. If I read it correctly, you have no student debt. I don't know if you know how fortunate you are.

I have a bachelor's in BA, but I haven't used it at all. I'm still paying my student debt on that one. All my jobs have been from my technical training in Marine Corps Aviation. So yes, I can say that sometimes a college degree is meaningless. My military experience has landed me jobs. I was actually supposed to get laid off one time but another former marine pulled me into his engineering group and I've had that job ever since.

However, my wife has a bachelor's in nursing and she's making bank like crazy right now. So her college degree made it possible. She also moved here from Brazil in 1999 and didn't speak any english. Now she works in level-1 trauma hospitals as an operating room nurse.

I'll never tell someone to get an education in anything other than a trade or technical skill. Something that is hands-on. In my 30 years of employment, I rarely see people on the production/service/engineering floor get laid off during a re-org. The first people to go are the office-dwellers and lower/middle managers.

But, you might look at being a nurse recruiter. I hear there are good nurse recruiting jobs you can do from home and some companies give preference to vets. I might actually look into it when I leave Oregon.

Tony.

Edmond have you looked in the Healthcare field, namely hospital systems?

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
It's not what you know, it's who you know.

I have a BS in Industrial Technology. Then I earned an MBA. I am professionally certified in my field of Supply Chain Management. I know it well enough to teach certification classes on it and also as an adjunct professor. I then went on to get a second masters, MS in Information Systems. I am smart enough to have been a nuclear operator in the navy and to be in Mensa. And I am an extrovert.

I gave my bona fides only to testify how correct it is that it's who you know. I told my students, there are three levels of compensations. The lowest is getting paid for what you do. The more you do and the better you do it, the more you get paid. The next level is getting paid for what you know. The more you know and the better quality of what you know, the more you get paid. The highest level is getting paid for who you know. The more people y9ou know and the better their quality, the more you get paid.

The false narrative is going to college to get an education; that's only secondary. The real goal is going to the right college to get to know the right people. Outside of the obvious exceptions, CEOs come from Yale and Harvard not because they're schools that provide the best education; they're schools that provide the best people to network with.

Another factor that has lowered the value of college education is proliferation of schools and the actual lowering of standards to get a passing grade.

Having said that, it's not all gloom and doom. You do have two masters and not too many people have that. Realistically, the combination of your HR degree and your military background may give people a skewed projection of how you will perform in the areas of people relations. You will need to break through with gate keepers.

I can also look over your resume if you want and I can give you feedback on it.

As someone else said, it's a matter of changing your perspective and attitude. Right now, your job is being a salesperson selling your most important product - yourself.

A good salesperson knows it's not the features of the product that closes the sale; it's about pitching the product that highlights the benefits the product gives the customer in solving the customer's problems.

What separates the top level salespeople from the rest is that each "no" they get means they're one step closer to getting a yes.

Go to LinkedIn, look for job recruiting groups that actually focus on just separated military. Join professional groups, volunteer. Don't worry about being seen as only being there to position yourself to get a job. They're in there for the same thing and that's how they get warm bodies.

Good luck.

I remember as a Policeman seeing the pay band at one point was the same as the City paid librarians. That was kind of discouraging but my job was a lot more fun that the Dewey decimal BS in the Library.

In any case, I went back to school, earned my degree and found out credentials didn't mean much beyond getting that ticket punched for job entry and pay. You really got ahead by outworking (outperforming) everyone else in whatever job you had IMHO.

Things work out. Don't be discouraged. I got an MBA the 1984 and was immediately promoted. 6 years later I got on the wrong side of the guy who was president all of our division and was demoted. I left that company and went to work for a couple of others and felt like the time and money I spent on the MBA was completely worthless.

It's been 20 years since I started my own business. The stuff I learned in the MBA has been immensely valuable to me. It is the basis for Financial Security for me and my family. And I am truly happy.

Don't be discouraged. Good things happen. The lessons you are learning will be a blessing to you as your life goes forward.

I don't often post, but as a hiring manager who has interviewed and hired many many many full time employees and contractors, I might have some insight that could help you.

1. I work in the technology field. The market for IT professionals is white hot right now. Companies are fighting over talent--I've extended offers to candidates after an interview only to find out they already took another role. Even worse, I've had candidates who have accepted offers who have, in the intervening time, interviewed and landed other roles. I currently have a role that has been open for 6+ months that I haven't been able to fill. Have you thought about a career change? It would not take a whole lot of time investment to land an entry level tech job paying $80+k/year.

2. When I interview a candidate, I don't really pay attention to their education. I'm more interested in their communication skills, and then secondarily their experience. In fact, I don't care too much about experience either, as I can teach someone the technical details about their job. What matters more is the ability to understand what is being said to them, and how they are able to communicate information to others. You absolutely cannot go into an interview with a chip on your shoulder. Going to Harvard, having a masters or doctorate doesn't matter a lick if you can't communicate effectively.

3. Don't worry about where you are located. With remote work becoming more and more mainstream, and with employers fighting over candidates right now, you'll find that almost any technology role you apply for right now will give you a work from home option.

Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like some 1:1 coaching. I'd be more than happy to conduct a mock interview and give you feedback, or do a review of your resume to see why you aren't landing interviews.

I have no degree but 40 hours or so of college credits. I was fortunate enough to gain technical skills in my first job out of the Air Force. Now I've got 27 years of experience in a field with very few people at my level. I can choose where I want to work now and recruiters come after me. But, it took about 20 years of hard work to get here. I took jobs that sucked, at times took major pay cuts to gain experience and moved where I needed to in order to be employed. My lack of education has not been detrimental.

I've interviewed all kinds of people over the years, those like me with no education to brilliant PhD's. I'll tell you, education alone is not enough. You may suck at interviewing, your resume may suck, you may suck at relaying the skills you have or maybe you live in an area with few jobs. Hopefully you're not like many officers I served with who thought they were above the lowly enlisted folks and expected the same preferential treatment in the civilian world. A friend of mine is a Naval Academy graduate. He has taken menial jobs to support his family after his separation from the Navy. He repaired appliances among other things and did what he had to.

The good news is you can adapt and get out of you're situation, you are not education limited so find out your shortcoming and fix it. Plenty of good advice offered here, learn from the rejection, use the advice and don't give up.

quote:

Originally posted by ElusivePeon:
2. When I interview a candidate, I don't really pay attention to their education. I'm more interested in their communication skills, and then secondarily their experience. In fact, I don't care too much about experience either, as I can teach someone the technical details about their job. What matters more is the ability to understand what is being said to them, and how they are able to communicate information to others. You absolutely cannot go into an interview with a chip on your shoulder. Going to Harvard, having a masters or doctorate doesn't matter a lick if you can't communicate effectively.

This shouldn't be buried in the middle. Fresh out of college, "tire salesman bullshit" worked much better than "engineering school graduate" in interviews.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
The false narrative is going to college to get an education; that's only secondary. The real goal is going to the right college to get to know the right people. Outside of the obvious exceptions, CEOs come from Yale and Harvard not because they're schools that provide the best education; they're schools that provide the best people to network with.

This is infuriatingly true.
I'm isolated in a large org & don't want to move or play in the politics. I perform well, but squeaky wheels get grease. I don't squeak & there's not really anybody here to listen anyway.
About 10yrs ago I helped polish the stupid off a kid fresh out of college & working on his MBA. He knew the right people & as soon as he wasn't a liability, he shot up. We've lost touch, but I bet he's making 2x what I do & has been promoted multiple times. I'm not bitter or jealous - he's a good guy & likely is better at that job than I would be. It's just the way it is.

Now the advice & I sincerely hope it helps in whatever small way.
Everybody wants experience - nobody wants to pay for it.
School isn't experience. Military might be, if it's directly relatable.
Take a job. It's easier to get a job when you already have one. It's also easier to turn the wrong job down if you already have one.

Just another avenue to explore:

https://www.usajobs.gov/

You’ll get hiring preference for military service and you’ll find jobs of all descriptions.

Kind of ironic isn't that someone with a degree (and advanced one at that) on hiring people can't get a job?

A lot of good advice here so it might be interesting to hear back from the OP on what he plans to do to rectify the situation.

If it is just a venting thread so be it but no one here wants someone to fail, IMO.

Looking forward to a success story.

The company that is doing the repair work on the hangar door is recruiting.

● Their website "careers" page lists (among other things)

● Customer Service and Account Management

● Human Resources

● Management and Operations

● Finance and Accounting

Take a look at https://www.dhpace.com/careers/

A friend of mine once characterized being fired, as “The hand of God pushing me in a direction I was unwilling to take myself.“

What kind of people have you had review your resume to give you feedback? I review at a LOT of resumes every year, and the majority of them are from Veterans. Some of them are great, some are good, and a whole bunch of them are truly terrible. Many of them are clearly accomplished people, they just don't convey it in their resume. Some (especially the military ones) have so many acronyms and jargon in them that someone with different life experiences isn't going to be able to understand. A surprising number do really dumb, easily correctable things like leave any and all contact information off their resume. Once I had an accomplished engineer submit a hand written, completely unintelligible resume. He genuinely didn't understand why he wasn't getting any interviews even though he had experience that would have played well if he had been able to land an interview.

In your post I see your accomplishments and hear your anguish about not being where you think you should be in life, but I don't see any attempts to gain insight from others into WHY that's not happening given those accomplishments. Feedback from experts in your field will help you fill technical holes in your resume and you'll be building relationships with the people that can point you in the direction of job opportunities. They may even be the people evaluating you when you apply for those opportunities. Professionals outside your field may be able to spot other issues with your resume or approach (and it's good to keep in mind that the first people who evaluate your resume might not actually know anything about your field...)

Also, it's not what you want to hear but don't knock the menial jobs. Many people started at the very bottom sweeping floors or working in the mailroom. My career has nothing to do with my college degree. I started as the lowest paid part time blue collar employee in my organization because I didn't have a job and needed to eat. I had no intention of staying, but I moved up when it made sense for me. 20 years later and I'm comfortable in a career I never intended to have and I know my next opportunities will likely come from those I've built relationships with along the way.

I would add that too many expect that the initial job with college is the ultimate job.
I maintain that if you get an opportunity that may have a path in the area you desire to take it regardless whether it is optimum or not.
Taking a job with no pathway is not optimum but may have to happen to survive but just keep an eye out in the mean time that takes you in the direction you desire.
Just don't expect the corner office with a fat paycheck and a cute secretary right off the bat.

Some have suggested asking the prospective employer why they didn't hire you. I think that would lead to lies from said employer, because they're not about to incriminate themselves into a lawsuit. Instead, I think the BETTER question to ask said prospective employer (when you get turned down) is, "What can I do to make myself better marketable to be employed in this capacity within your company." THEN the employer is giving you positive feedback for where you might fall short of other applicants.

Of course, it wouldn't surprise me in the least for you to be told 99% of the time, "We feel we have candidates that better fit our need." Not much you can do after that if they refuse your request for information.

Endmond keep your chin up. In my field it is vacation, location and pay. Pick two out of three.

I would say cast a wider net and e ready to move to a less desirable location to get what you want. Then after a few years leverage it. Find something where you want. Contact me by email if you want to talk. Been there done that.

Your profile doesn't indicate where you live, but here in Arizona, nearly every business has a "Help Wanted" sign. Expanding your options by looking at the possibility of relocating to an area with new opportunities is worth considering.

Every job I ever had came via someone I know, going all the way back to my high school days. Networking is IMPORTANT.

Once you make the connection, 2 keys rules of life should guide your mindset:

1. Nobody owes you anything. (or in the words of Rocky: Nobody owes nobody nothing.)

2. You're only as good as what you can do for me today.

It's not much harder than that, but you may want to have someone look at your resume and practice your interview skills. There are tons of videos on Youtube on how to interview.