So a friend shared a story with me that his deceased grandfather allegedly told him. The story went that his grandfather was serving in (he thinks) Belgium during WW2, and his unit engaged in a pitched battle with a unit in German Army uniforms, killing several. The odd thing was that several of deceased in German uniforms were clearly Asian, and as best he could tell, were probably Japanese. Thought it was nonsense until I came across this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUoOJEidm2o

Not unheard of. The Japanese captured various Asians and pressed them into service. Then some were captured by the Russians at Khalikin Ghol and pressed into Russian serivce. Then captured by Germany. There are also Russian minority ethnicities that look Asian.

There was a story in Stephen Ambrose's book about D-Day where a US Army unit captured some Koreans on Omaha beach. There were also people of various ethnicity that suffered from British colonialism that fought for Germany. I'm pretty sure there was at least on unit of Indians that fought for Germany.

So, how did the German higher ups reconcile that with "The Master race"?

quote:

Originally posted by Sailor1911:
So, how did the German higher ups reconcile that with "The Master race"?

They used whatever resources were available to them, especially as the war progressed, and their manpower needs increased.

As the war progressed, even the Waffen-SS became predominately non-German. They had rebranded themselves into a more of a "international coalition against the evils of Communism", and recruited from whatever ethnic groups were available to them.

There were plenty of oppressed peoples who were willing to sign up to fight the Russians. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that, and the Soviets actions in the 1920s and 1930s had earned them a number of enemies in Eastern Europe, and even from ethnic groups within the Soviet Union. A large number of people in the Soviet Union saw the invading Germans as saviors from Stalin.

Others signed up simply because it beat the alternative: sitting and starving in a POW camp, or sitting at home unemployed and starving. When a German recruiting officer comes along and promises you pay, food, and adventure, that can be tempting, depending on the circumstances.

I once read about some Poles in the bunkers at Normandy on D-Day. They were pressed into service or volunteered after the occupation and surrendered as soon as they could on D-Day. By that point, even the SS had some muslim and Asian units, despite their earlier Aryan purity requirements.

I recall reading the IRA was pro Germany during the war.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I recall reading the IRA was pro Germany during the war.

I think the IRA was for anyone against Britain.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by Sailor1911:
So, how did the German higher ups reconcile that with "The Master race"?

As mentioned, the Wehrmacht and even the SS incorporated many different nationalities and ethnic groups into their units. At the beginning of the war there were even Jewish soldiers.

And if the ones described above were in fact Japanese, Japan was an ally of Germany and Italy in World War II: The “Axis” consisted of those three countries. The attack on Pearl Harbor prompted Hitler to make one of his countless blunders by also declaring war on the US. As a result of the treaty with Japan, German Nazis had to go through many philosophical contortions to justify their being affiliated with the “master race.”

The Wehrmacht recruited local auxiliaries, particularly in the USSR, called Hilfswillige (literally, "willing to help", Hiwis for short). They were initially used for labor, later also for local security, and eventually pressed into combat. A particular case was the "Russian Liberation Army“ raised by former Red Army general Andrey Vlasov as an anti-communist force, mostly from Soviet POWs who wanted to escape the KZ-like conditions under which they were held by Germany. The initiative came from Heinrich Himmler, but it was under the operative control of the Wehrmacht, considered the army of an allied state, and even had a small air arm.

Ironically the Waffen-SS, which started out as a super-Aryan elite force, made the biggest and most regular use of foreign troops from occupied and neutral countries. This began with 5th SS Division "Wiking" which recruited volunteers from "Germanic and kindred peoples" (Scandinavians, Finns, Dutch, Belgians and Estonians) from 1940. 7th SS "Prinz Eugen" was the first designated "volunteer" division, raised mostly from ethnic Germans from Southeast Europe. Later SS Volunteer Divisions included 11th "Nordland“ (Danes and German-Croats), 18th "Horst Wessel" and 22nd "Maria Theresia" (German-Hungarians), 23rd "Nederland" and 34th "Landstorm Nederland" (Dutch), 27th "Langemarck" and 28th "Wallonien" (Belgian). Despite the "volunteer" designation, towards the end of the war people were simply drafted from many occupied countries, just like Germans were into the original SS divisions.

There was a fine distinction between the SS Freiwilligen and SS Waffen-Grenadier divisions, which were made up of "non-Germanic" personnel - including Albanian, Croatian, French, Hungarian, Italian, Latvian, Russian and Ukrainian. Then there were all sorts of minor "legions" from non-occupied countries, including Allied nations, which generally had just a handful of members, often recruited from POWs. They mostly existed for propaganda purposes, like the British Legion of St. George (total strength: 27). Probably the biggest was the Legion Free India, recruited by Nazi-affiliated Indian anti-colonialist leader Subhash Chandra Bose from Indian POWs which had been sent to Europe under British Imperial command. They had a peak strength of 2,600 and were deployed to France in 1944, initially under the Wehrmacht, later under the Waffen-SS. So it's perfectly possible that Allied troops would have encountered Asian-looking soldiers there.

"My Way" is a fairly good movie (if you're OK with sub-titles) made in Korea based on a true story about this specific thing. I won't spoil the movie, but it does present an arc as to how a Japanese soldier and a Korean soldier might end up in German uniform on the Western front in WWII.

More than likely Koreans. There were groups of them sent by Japan. Some were based on the coast during D day

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I once read about some Poles in the bunkers at Normandy on D-Day. They were pressed into service or volunteered after the occupation and surrendered as soon as they could on D-Day. By that point, even the SS had some muslim and Asian units, despite their earlier Aryan purity requirements.

There were a LOT of "Ost" troops at Normandy (so named vecause they came from eastern European areas). One funny story I read was how there was a bunker of Polish troops firing on our GIs. There was a short pause, a single gunshot, then all the Poles walked out smiling with their hands up. They shot the German sergeant who was forcing them to fight. They were happy as clams to not die defending France.

Subhash Chandra Bose, he was a leader for the fight against the Allies to help overthrow British rule. Conspired first with the Nazis then the Japs. He is also the hero of AOC's Chief of Staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, who is the guy who helped significantly to get her elected. Chakrabarti is the prime leader of Social Justice Democrats. They also got Omar and the other Muslim elected. Chakrabarti is often photographed in a Chandra Bose t-shirt.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:
Subhash Chandra Bose, he was a leader for the fight against the Allies to help overthrow British rule. Conspired first with the Nazis then the Japs. He is also the hero of AOC's Chief of Staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, who is the guy who helped significantly to get her elected. Chakrabarti is the prime leader of Social Justice Democrats. They also got Omar and the other Muslim elected. Chakrabarti is often photographed in a Chandra Bose t-shirt.

Cool. Politics in a completely unrelated thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Herkdriver:

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:
Subhash Chandra Bose, he was a leader for the fight against the Allies to help overthrow British rule. Conspired first with the Nazis then the Japs. He is also the hero of AOC's Chief of Staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, who is the guy who helped significantly to get her elected. Chakrabarti is the prime leader of Social Justice Democrats. They also got Omar and the other Muslim elected. Chakrabarti is often photographed in a Chandra Bose t-shirt.

Cool. Politics in a completely unrelated thread.

Normally, I enjoy pouncing on what you think you’re pouncing on, but I would suggest that in this context, it has a legitimate historical relevancy to the topic in question with a modern tie-in. I think people deserve to know these sorts of things.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1606384/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1...185433?ref_=tt_ov_vi

Watch this excellent movie.

0-0

These guys aren't speaking German, they're speaking Czech.

quote:

Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:
These guys aren't speaking German, they're speaking Czech.

Yep, and they're saying:

"Please don’t shoot me! I am not German, I am Czech, I didn’t kill anyone! I am Czech."

quote:

Originally posted by BansheeOne:
The Wehrmacht recruited local auxiliaries, particularly in the USSR, called Hilfswillige (literally, "willing to help", Hiwis for short). They were initially used for labor, later also for local security, and eventually pressed into combat. A particular case was the "Russian Liberation Army“ raised by former Red Army general Andrey Vlasov as an anti-communist force, mostly from Soviet POWs who wanted to escape the KZ-like conditions under which they were held by Germany. The initiative came from Heinrich Himmler, but it was under the operative control of the Wehrmacht, considered the army of an allied state, and even had a small air arm.

Ironically the Waffen-SS, which started out as a super-Aryan elite force, made the biggest and most regular use of foreign troops from occupied and neutral countries. This began with 5th SS Division "Wiking" which recruited volunteers from "Germanic and kindred peoples" (Scandinavians, Finns, Dutch, Belgians and Estonians) from 1940. 7th SS "Prinz Eugen" was the first designated "volunteer" division, raised mostly from ethnic Germans from Southeast Europe. Later SS Volunteer Divisions included 11th "Nordland“ (Danes and German-Croats), 18th "Horst Wessel" and 22nd "Maria Theresia" (German-Hungarians), 23rd "Nederland" and 34th "Landstorm Nederland" (Dutch), 27th "Langemarck" and 28th "Wallonien" (Belgian). Despite the "volunteer" designation, towards the end of the war people were simply drafted from many occupied countries, just like Germans were into the original SS divisions.

There was a fine distinction between the SS Freiwilligen and SS Waffen-Grenadier divisions, which were made up of "non-Germanic" personnel - including Albanian, Croatian, French, Hungarian, Italian, Latvian, Russian and Ukrainian. Then there were all sorts of minor "legions" from non-occupied countries, including Allied nations, which generally had just a handful of members, often recruited from POWs. They mostly existed for propaganda purposes, like the British Legion of St. George (total strength: 27). Probably the biggest was the Legion Free India, recruited by Nazi-affiliated Indian anti-colonialist leader Subhash Chandra Bose from Indian POWs which had been sent to Europe under British Imperial command. They had a peak strength of 2,600 and were deployed to France in 1944, initially under the Wehrmacht, later under the Waffen-SS. So it's perfectly possible that Allied troops would have encountered Asian-looking soldiers there.

Above photo probably of an ex-Soviet soldier from Mongolia(looks like he could fit right into a Japanese Samurai flick though. Maybe the OP's friend's grandfather saw one of these in Normandy).

Re: Andrey Vlasov. When I was a kid I knew a man who was in Vlasov's Army-a friend of my father. I've written about him in my blog and other places: here

"And it must have raised some eyebrows around the post[Ford Holabird, MD] when his friend Alexei, an ex-Red Army colonel, was held up at the main gate where, asking to be admitted to an army intelligence base, he insisted in his broken English that he was friends with father. I can just see the grin on father’s face when he got the call from the MPs at the gate.

This was after he took my mother and me to visit Alexei toward the end of our tour at Holabird. Alexei lived with his German girlfriend in an apartment in Washington D.C and did some kind of work for the CIA. He was, up to that time, probably the most interesting person I had ever met. When the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 he was commanding a Cossack unit and after his capture he along with tens of thousands of Cossacks, who hated Stalin, went over to the German side. He certainly looked and fit the stereotype of a higher ranking Soviet officer-gregarious, extroverted with short cropped grey hair and a military style mustache. During the post war years hiding out in Germany from the allied repatriation teams he had managed to hang on to his calf-length black bear skin cape that Cossack officers wore and liked wearing it, especially after downing a vodka or two, which he often did.

Once we went on a picnic with him and his girlfriend to Gettysburg where he and father, who seldom drank, knocked back large tumblers of vodka. Father, completely hammered, spent much of the drive back to Holabird vomiting out the passenger door window. On another occasion Alexei and our family were invited to spend the weekend at a cabin up in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

The host, whom father had known when attending Russian language school(“Detachment R”), worked for the CIA and was a general officer having had a distinguished career. On D-Day he had parachuted into Normandy with an 82nd Airborne battalion, which he commanded. He had been a married lawyer before the war and because of his age, could easily have avoided service, but he joined up anyway, and volunteered for the airborne no less.

His daughter, who was about the same age as me(ten and a half), was a very pretty girl who I instantly got a crush on(my sister felt the same way toward his son). I have two vivid memories of that weekend, one was walking with the girl along a creek that ran beneath the cabin feeling the intense autumn cold and being sick with love. And later late that night I got up to pee and found father and Alexei, wearing his black bear skin cape, sitting around the kitchen table playing chess, smoking and drinking."

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWall:
Subhash Chandra Bose, he was a leader for the fight against the Allies to help overthrow British rule. Conspired first with the Nazis then the Japs. He is also the hero of AOC's Chief of Staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, who is the guy who helped significantly to get her elected. Chakrabarti is the prime leader of Social Justice Democrats. They also got Omar and the other Muslim elected. Chakrabarti is often photographed in a Chandra Bose t-shirt.

Wow. That is a fascinating piece of history there.