D9es it excel at catching tomahawk missiles as well?

Consider the statement and the idea that maybe they aren't lying. They say that they can dectect stealth at a distance. The problem is they can't do anything at distance. Long ago there was a technology called backscatter radar that could do it. So they copied our 1980s and 1990s technology. Suddenly they see a bunch of signals coming at them. They scramble all their jets and discover chaff all over the sky. Then the ones still flying try to land before they break down. Hooray, they've done something.

quote:

Originally posted by icom706:
If it is created by man, it can also be overcome by man. To paraphrase Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

All stealth technology does, is reduce the echo (RF signal) going back to the source. Improve the receiver at the source and less and less signal receipt is required to 'see'. I've seen some RF technology at the plain Amateur Radio level that is freaking cool. Now figure that the military is at least 15+ years ahead in what I have access to.

If I recall, the Czech's claimed to have tracked a F-117 over Bosnia back in the '90s. Again, just tweaking the receiver.

Also, even stealth aircraft cause 'atmospheric turbulence', which does differ at altitudes. Still, if we can detect wind-shears and other wind anomalies, we can't be too far away from detecting 'aircraft turbulence' at distance.

One thing people need to realize is that stealth isn't digital, where you either detect it or you don't.

Stealth has always been analog, it is tuned for particular frequencies and simply lowers the signature. US Stealth designs are tuned to lower detection with X band radars. These are high frequency radars used for targeting, and were among the common radars used when the Have Blue program was started. They are also tuned to have the lowest signature in the front and rear aspects.

So a stealth fighter approaching a X band radar head on might have a 90% lower return than say a F-16. S band might be 75% lower, L band might be 60% lower, and VHF might be 40% lower. So any nation that wants to counter stealth might start deploying VHF band radars right? And they have, we've seen a resurgence of low band radars. But you are still dealing with a significant reduction in radar detection range, and lower bands radars are not good for targeting single aircraft.

And we've started to counter that with better electronics and mission planning. And they will figure out something else new and we will counter that. The game goes on and on.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
China is full of shit.

They CANNOT innovate anything, all they can do is copy and imitate what others have done.

This - in spades.

But - if China did have this technology - it was most likely developed by Chinese students attending one of our finer institutions here in the US - on a scholarship.

Well I've been looking into this more because the idea interests me. It sounds like a fancy LIDAR that can detect when the signal is disrupted but not reflected back directly back.

Of course I wonder how they filter out times when that happens but it isn't a stealth aircraft.

If they REALLY has something that could detect steath aircraft, would they blurt it to the world? Or would the camouflage it as a normal radar, and keep it under their hat until they needed it?

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If they REALLY has something that could detect steath aircraft, would they blurt it to the world? Or would the camouflage it as a normal radar, and keep it under their hat until they needed it?

Maybe they think a war with the US or any other stealth aircraft using power is so unlikely that the propaganda value is worth more than the tactical value. Or they are trying to sell the technology to other countries like North Korea or Iran.

Or more likely they are bullshitting and overstating the capabilities. As the more I read the idea isn't new, simply that no one has made one that works reliably in the lab let alone in actual practice.

Sort of like their carrier killing hypersonic missiles, the idea sounds promising, but in reality it doesn't change much.

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:
But you are still dealing with a significant reduction in radar detection range, and lower bands radars are not good for targeting single aircraft.

Resurgence of nuclear armed Nike equivalents?

stealth is a blend of technologies and like everything else there are optimizations

for example, most stealth aircraft can be observed on low band radar but low band can't be used for targeting and guidance, so its been largely ignored

Stealth excels at defeating certain high band radars commonly used in surface to air or air to air missiles, but again this is optimized for a presumed threat axis - the aircraft isn't stealthy all the way around

also includes not only surface coating technologies, but includes how aircraft seams are fitted together, discontinuities in the air frame panels such as avionics bays, gear doors, weapons bays, and also includes how antennas are hidden and shielded

so could China see a stealth aircraft?

probably

can they do much about it?

unlikely

I'm surprised how many of you are underestimating our adversaries. China isn't planning to invade the US, if they go against our stealth it will be in a defensive posture in the SCS; an area they are familiar with and have had time to prepare. View their claim within that context. Given basing constraints, a HUMINT network tracking these assets stateside and many other unconventional capabilities it would be prudent to give their claim some thought. They are sending a signal not to fuck with them in the SCS. Having studied the scenario in depth, we should be very careful.

^^^

In the area I am in, it is most dense with "stuff and things".

I hear people running their mouth about things they should not, in places they ought not and people listening they know not.

And having been "trained" long ago about "the third man listening", I am amazed that you can't buy the F-35 and other weapons systems at Walmart...

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Since nobody else has it and China only 'innovates' by stealing, I'm going to conclude that this is BS.

^^^^^^
This !!!

It isn't completely obsolete. Even if the Chinese claim they can do it, it is still a bigger step to get it into a working combat plan.

Only one way to find out for sure....send an unmanned F-35 (drone) in to China and load it with HE, see if penetrates a certain zone undetected, if detected (pinged) it will be self destructed over some uninhabited area, preferably over the ocean, or taken out by a SAM.

I doubt one single drone incident would set off WWIII, but then...I could be wrong!

Those single engine, single piloted F-35s are gonna need some new seat cushions vs China, IMO.

Have fun storming the castle!!!

Been possible since at least 1991, we lost a F117 in Serbia. Search "Roke Manor stealth", since 2001 or so a system has been advertised that can detect stealth. Any object moving past transmitters/receivers will block/reflect the signals. So in theory say you could monitor a cellular telephone network and with enough computing power and skill see where something is in real time.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US NOW!

BWA HA HA HA!!!

quote:

Originally posted by detroit192:
Been possible since at least 1991, we lost a F117 in Serbia. Search "Roke Manor stealth", since 2001 or so a system has been advertised that can detect stealth. Any object moving past transmitters/receivers will block/reflect the signals. So in theory say you could monitor a cellular telephone network and with enough computing power and skill see where something is in real time.

I find the Roke Manor proposal hard to believe. Telephone signal strength at upper altitudes isn't significant enough that such a system would be able to notice disruptions at altitude.

Also any nation that implements this technology is stupid because cell towers don't have operators to turn them on and off like smart air defense networks, they are in fixed locations, and rely on the local power system. So stand off weapons can be used to neutralize them.

Developed by .

Stollen by China...

quote:

Originally posted by rekstrom:
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US NOW!

BWA HA HA HA!!!

Very first thing that popped into my head.