I'm sure it was. Antarctica is incredible. I have seen the weather in Drake Passage (Between Cape Horn and the Antarctic Peninsula) go from 4-6 ft and 15 knots to 50-60 ft and 100 knots with heavy icing in 12 hours with no warning other than a barometer graph gong straight down. None of those ships are designed for that, and if you were to get caught out, I dare say you'd never set foot on another ship again.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109530668290183172

Looks like a wilder ride than most expected.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If you think that about cruise ships, what do you think about airliners?

What about them? Airplanes are necessary for travel. I certainly wouldn't spend days on one with thousands of other folks purely for drinking and partying and a nice view.

Pretty much this.

https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/c...hip-in-problem/51015

She's headed into port now.

I'm going out on a limb and predicting with zero evidence that the casualty was in the new-fangled, eco-friendly, seawater lubricated bearings.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:

Not to contradict Balze, but I'd much rather have 100 miles of sea room to drift and try to get the plant operational, than have to rely on the anchor to keep me from breaking up on a lee shore. It's really a nightmare to be on a ship getting pounded against the rocks in heavy breaking surf.Really a worst case scenario. These ships are large enough, that unless stability is compromised, you are in no danger wallowing around mid-ocean, unless you consider sea-sickness fatal.

Oh certainly. But in this case they at least have an anchor out and seemingly holding fast. I've lost the plant of a ship a couple of hundred miles of the North Carolina coast once and it was no big deal. The ocean was calm and there was no traffic. I had almost an hour to troubleshoot with not too much stress and eventually got propulsion back where we were then able to limp into Charlestown for repairs.

But losing propulsion in heavy seas or extreme weather with what appears to be a catastrophic failure would be pretty precarious as well. Rescue in any case would be a long time coming.

But I agree with you that given the choice, I'll take losing the plant far off shore then close to it in seas like they're experiencing on that cruise ship.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:

I'm going out on a limb and predicting with zero evidence that the casualty was in the new-fangled, eco-friendly, seawater lubricated bearings.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were correct. Lubrication with sea water...what a hoot.

I’ve probably been on over 20 cruises, my parents...probably more than double that.

I always did wonder the chaos that would ensue if there was an emergency late (Fire, German U-Boats, krakan, etc...) at night when most of the Ship is drunk and partying.

What you don't know can't hurt you. Right?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were correct. Lubrication with sea water...what a hoot.

What could possibly go wrong? Toss in dissimilar metals and it could really be good.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
I’ve been aboard two ships that had fires, and several that have lost power, multiple times. Nothing is perfect. Simply having an engineer close a wrong valve while trying to change a Fuel filter will cause a shut down...

Nope, not me.

The ship I was on at one time had lost forward and after steering while headed to the Rose Bowl.
I think she ran into Interstate 5.
Had to get towed in.
She got the nickname Roadrunner.

I saw the Poseidon Adventure in the early 70's when I was a kid. I never had a desire to go on a cruise ship after that.

quote:

Originally posted by djinco:
I believe that it takes a well trained crew to maintain the seaworthiness of a vessel at sea.
Naval personnel spend every day, every hour, performing maintenance and ensuring the proper functioning of pumps, generators, valves and machinery.
Does anyone really believe that a cruise liner spends the same time and detail as the US Navy? Even the Russians, (Soviets) did NOT have the same meticulous attention to detail and the PMS (Preventative Maintenance System, is a real navy term).
A ship at sea, especially an aircraft carrier, has multiple fires daily. The trained crew reacts quickly to extinguish these fires. On a cruise liner, the crew probably (I have no real facts) heads topside to get fresh air.
US Navy trains and trains some more until the entire crew knows how to put out a fire or stop flooding.
Knowing the great expense the Navy puts toward operations, how could I ever trust to put my family and my friends lives in that type of risk?

Fires, floods and mechanical failure is a constant on a ship. On a cruise liner, that all happens away from the passenger decks.

Aircraft, not the same... no, they don't have the same lackadaisical attitude toward maintenance.

This is completely full of misconceptions. Fire and flooding is an extremely rare occurance on a cruise ship or most other commercial ships for that matter and considered an emergency situation, NOT a daily occurrence.


Yes, the cruise ships are properly manned, with properly trained personnel, and generally properly maintain the ship. They have strict standards they have to adhere to in regards to safe manning (personnel) as well as maintaining the ship. With most all flag states, they still have to maintain all of the rules and regulations of the STCW, IMO, and other organizations like ABS and have to do safety drills on a regular basis and so forth. The Navy has no external oversight into their maintenance.

They have been using sea water bearings for intermediate bearings on shafts for decades, Cutlass bearings (to support the shaft in the middle and on the end inside of the struts). So that technology isn't new. We've been using seawater cooled bearings for the stuffing boxes on high speed shafts (cruise ships use very low speed turning shafts) in the yachting industry for over 20 years with a very low failure rate. Our shafts generally turn anywhere from 700-1400 rpm's all day long depending on the reduction gear and ship shafts are generally turning 60-100 rpms.

https://www.tidesmarine.com/sh...ureseal_overview.php

The Compac bearing this ship has is a synthetic material and isn't a metal at all that rides on the shaft and pressed into a bronze housing, much like a cutlass bearing. So the metals are isolated. According to their website, they have a survivability failure mode and can get back into port even if they fail. This is not the issue. The ship lost propulsion. It has gotten 3 engines (out of 4) restarted and is heading to the port of Molde. She was drifting as close to 300' from the rocks until the anchor held. Evacuation halted after 463 passengers (out of 1300) were taken off.

https://thordonbearings.com/ma...aring-systems/compac

Ships have mechanical failures all of the time, most are fixable at sea without a stoppage, a small percentage simply are not. Anything at this point is pure speculation.

That being said, with the sheer amount of cruise ships traveling millions of miles daily, the amount of incidents is an incredibly minor percentage and no different than the airline industry. Stuff is going to break and there will be incidents.

As a Captain, I have no fear of going on cruise ships. Yes, there are a lot of people on a ship, but the newer ships have done a great job of not making it feel crowded. It's a great way to get a snap shot of a lot of different destinations in a short period of time, that you can then choose to fly back to a destination you really like later, than be stuck at a destination you flew to for a week and find out you don't like. The food is generally very good, there's a broad array of entertainment on board. etc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x,

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:
https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/c...hip-in-problem/51015

She's headed into port now.

I'm going out on a limb and predicting with zero evidence that the casualty was in the new-fangled, eco-friendly, seawater lubricated bearings.

Actually I would disagree with you on this. Thordon has been around for at least 40 years and their bearings were a direct replacement of historic lignum vitae (wood) seawater lubricated bearings used for hundreds of years. Please do not confuse Thordon with the ‘green’ movement.

Thanks Jimmy for the clarification. Detailed yet concise from someone with first hand experience. I had a feeling there was some misplaced drama here.

Now that you mention it, I have a Cutless bearing on the propeller shaft of my 20’ mahogany Chriscraft. As far as I know they have been used in that application for close to 100 years.

Did a little poking around on the propulsion systems of these ships, and as it is very unlikely for both shaft seals/bearings to fail simultaneously. Even more unlikely would be for all four MAN main propulsion engine/generators to fail simultaneously in two separate engine rooms. The fist ship in this class was taken out of service a couple of years ago for a "transformer failure."
Most likely this was a problem somewhere in the electrical distribution system. My second guess would be a fuel contamination issue.

No offense to anyone, but there is a big difference between a 2" shaft and a 20" shaft, the complications of dealing with sealing larger shafts at greater depths was one factor which led to a switch to azipod propulsion systems for most large cruise ships. (As a ship driver, I'll take azipods over traditional prop and rudder arrangements every time)
Advances in material sciences have made these water lubricated systems much more reliable over the last 15-20 years or so, but they were probably even more driven by the MARPOL, the EPA, and huge fines for tiny amounts of oil leaking by on traditional seals and bearings. The new IMO polar code and all these "Zero Discharge Zones" were the real drivers behind the widespread adoption of these seals.
Hopefully the advancements will continue and we will wind up with more reliable and lower cost seal/bearing systems in the long run. Unfortunately these systems aren't easily retrofittable without extensive structural modifications. The ship needs to be designed around them.

PS Viking Sky has made it safely to port in Molde.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris42:
I have spent four years in the US Navy, have spent time on smaller ships in the North Atlantic in the winter. Kind of miss seeing waves coming over the bow.

I had to laugh at this part of your post, Chris42. I saw a lot of that in the Pacific in my Navy hitch while trying to avoid those nasty typhoons on a guided missile frigate. I've yet to see it on a Princess ship. Too bad, I sleep better when the ship moves a little.

Mike - USS Truxton - DLGN-35 (now razor blades)

quote:

PS Viking Sky has made it safely to port in Molde.

Saw a report that founder and Chairman of Viking Torstein Hagen was already there waiting for them to make port.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Yup, and this sailor will continue to say hell no to any ocean going cruises. I'd never bring my family on one of those ships full of thousands of inexperienced, blissfully ignorant souls.

100% agree. My wife and I took a cruise in the Caribbean. The first thing we saw when we got on the ship was some drunk ass hat mooning everyone that went by. We did enjoy ourselves but if things got bad there would be nothing but 1500 drunk as shit fucks and very few people that know what to do. We'll never do it again. All inclusive resorts are the way to go if you want to party, the ocean has a big downside.

From the Norwegian press. Interesting tidbits such as the Vikings did not risk a journey in these shallow waters. Not your party cruise it seems. Lots of elderly Americans apparently. Here is the story. Sorry could not get a LINK.

A cruise liner that ran into trouble in stormy seas off Norway reached port under its own steam Sunday after hundreds of passengers were winched to safety by helicopter in a spectacular rescue operation.
Escorted by tugboats, the Viking Sky arrived in the port of Molde at around

4:15pm, television images showed. Nearly a third of its 1,373 passengers and crew had already been airlifted off the ship.

The cruise liner lost power and started drifting on Saturday afternoon two kilometres off a stretch of Norwegian coastline notorious for shipwrecks.

The captain sent out a Mayday prompting authorities to launch the airlift in difficult conditions rather than run the risk of leaving people on board.

Some 460 of the 1,373 people on the ship had been taken off by five helicopters before the airlift was halted.

Police said 17 people had been taken to hospital. One person more than 90 years old and two 70-year-olds suffered serious fractures.

With three of four engines restarted Sunday, two tugs towed the vessel away from dangerous reefs before it set sail for Molde, 500 kilometres northwest of Oslo, under its own power.

Dramatic footage of the passengers' ordeal showed furniture and plants sliding around the lurching vessel as parts of the ceiling came down.

Dozens of passengers wearing life jackets were seen seated waiting to get off the ship.

"I have never seen anything so frightening," said Janet Jacob, who was rescued.

"I started to pray. I prayed for the safety of everyone on board," she told broadcaster NRK.

"The helicopter trip was terrifying. The winds were like a tornado," she added.

"We were sitting down for breakfast when things started to shake... It was just chaos," said another passenger, American John Curry, as quoted in Norwegian by local media.

Passenger Rodney Horgan said he had been reminded of the Titanic.

"The best word, I guess, is surreal," he said.

"Sea water six-seven feet (about two metres) high just came rushing in, hit the tables, chairs, broken glass and 20-30 people just... went right in front of me.

"I was standing, my wife was sitting in front of me and all of a sudden, she was gone. And I thought this was the end," Horgan said.

But it all ended well for Ryan Flynn. "Here's my 83-year-old dad being airlifted from the #vikingsky," he said.

"We are all off the ship safely!"

The ship was sailing south from Tromsø to Stavanger when engine trouble struck mid-afternoon on Saturday in an area off Møre og Romsdal that has claimed many vessels.

"It is dangerous to encounter engine problems in these waters, which hide numerous reefs," said Tor Andre Franck, the head of police operations.

A reception centre was set up in a gym on shore for the evacuees, many of whom were elderly and from the United States and Britain.

The area where the ship got into problems, known as Hustadvika, is notoriously difficult to navigate.

The shallow, 10 nautical mile section of coastline is dotted with small islands and reefs.

"Hustadvika is one of the most notorious maritime areas that we have," Odd Roar Lange, a journalist specialising in tourism, told NRK.

In their time, the Vikings hesitated to venture into the Hustadvika, preferring instead to transport their boats by land from one fjord to another.

Operated by the Norwegian firm Viking Ocean Cruises, the Viking Sky was launched in 2017 with a capacity of 930 passengers plus crew.

In addition to US and British nationals, there were also passengers from 14 other countries on board, Fjeld said.

Well, it turns out the engineer kept the lube oil tank filled to the lower end of the normal range and the rolling caused all 4 engines to suck air instead of lube oil and caused them to shut down.

That makes no sense at all. Unless the engineers on that ship are completely inept.