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Political Cynic |
if you have a cell phone with a password, can you be compelled to give it up. I know if you use a thumbprint reader or a face recognition, your print or photo can be obtained but I thought I read somewhere that a password stored in your brain is off limits | ||
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| Wait, what? |
Are you concerned about, say, rogue LEO’s or thugs? If I thought I was subject to either as a threat, I’d use the 4 or 6 digit code option exclusively. As it sits, my iPhone is set up for either facial recognition or a 4 digit code. “Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown | |||
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Baroque Bloke |
With an iPhone, a photo won’t fool the face recognition mechanism. It requires a three-dimensional image of the face it’s been trained to recognize. My iPhone lock code is six digits. I need it so infrequently that maximum security is the obvious choice. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Political Cynic |
my phone can be set up to a numerical password - and will be by next week, but the question I'm asking is can I be compelled to give up that code to anyone if its not written down? | |||
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| Do the next right thing  |
Most phones require a numerical pin after a reboot or if you select a lockdown feature even if you have biometrics enabled. You can always use that to lock it down. | |||
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Void Where Prohibited |
Wasn't there a case along those lines a few years ago? I don't remember the outcome. I would think you would not have to give it up under the 5th Amendment right regarding self-incrimination. "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
^^^^^ Biden’s DOJ has some peculiar ideas about our Constitution. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Political Cynic |
There is a chance that someone is going to want to examine my phone. They can look at it all they want but won’t get past the passcode. | |||
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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
I recall one of the YouTube lawyers saying you could be forced to provide the password but, iirc, not your fingerprint. I believe this was in relation to entering the country from abroad. I have read advice to only take a backup phone out of the country which is not connected to any of your regular stuff like AppleID, bank accounts, email accounts, etc. No cloud stored passwords, no browser saved information. With some care you could access necessary accounts in a privacy mode on the browser and diligently delete all history and cookies. This would at least prevent a casual search from getting to any sensitive data. But I would guess if ICE wanted to they could find "deleted" information. You could even destroy the phone and trash it before coming back. Or do a factory reset, or destroy and ditch any physical sim card if you want to keep the phone. One reason for not taking your regular phone is in case it is stolen or lost, the criminals can't hack your bank accounts. If you are going to certain countries, it might be wise to be extremely careful about what is on your phone going in. e.g. if you sync all your photos, videos, music, etc there may be something considered illegal (nudity, etc) there but which is just normal here. Domestically, I don't know but would hope that a court order of some sort would be required. | |||
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E Plebmnista; Norcom, Forcom, Perfectumum. |
As we age, our fingprints fade. I had to take the fingerprint option off because it took forever before my phone would accept my finger. Often found myself giving my phone a different finger. ================================================ Ultron: "You're unbearably naive." Vision: "Well, I was born yesterday." | |||
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| Raised Hands Surround Us Three Nails To Protect Us  |
Currently many jurisdictions will issue a court order. I believe there are couple of cases that are wanting to go in front of the Supreme Court in regard to this but I have not heard of any making it. So, for the moment I believe you can be compelled. What you do in regard to the court order is up to you. However most phone can be gotten into by law enforcement with a search warrant even if they are password protected.
In many jurisdictions this would be tampering with physical evidence since he clearly has a pretty good idea someone is wanting in the phone.
There is something weird with my mother’s prints. She has had a few phones and her finer prints would never register and allow her to use them to unlock her phone. Also bought her a couple of gunsafes with fingerprint unlock and it would never work. I would use my prints and the phones and safes worked with no issues to set them up. It was weird. ———————————————— The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad. If we got each other, and that's all we have. I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand. You should know I'll be there for you! | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
"I can't remember the code." הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Member |
IANAL. All items IIRC (and I may not). The only case I remember hearing about was a federal district court decision that you can be compelled to provide your fingerprint as that is a normal function of the arrest process. The same ruling affirmed that a password/code was covered under self incrimination and can not be compelled. The case only had to do with domestic law, not Customs or entering the country. | |||
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| Semper Fidelis Marines |
I beleive thier is new case law that says the opposite, the fingerprint is akin to a booking fingerprint and can be used on scene to open the phone, I will try to post a clip from the decision thanks, shawn Semper Fi, ---->>> EXCUSE TYPOS<<<--- | |||
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| Semper Fidelis Marines |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quV4JSKnf9Y&t=333s not know the veracity of this..but thanks, shawn Semper Fi, ---->>> EXCUSE TYPOS<<<--- | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
I think there was a thread on this before where I raised my related concern. You can't be compelled to give up access to your phone without a court order / warrant as that is supposedly a 4th amendment violation - the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. But if you use face recognition, the police are allowed to hold your phone up to your face to unlock your phone. So if you suspect you're about to be apprehended, you can quickly press buttons to disable face recognition such as pressing the buttons to shut down the phone (on and volume up buttons on an iphone) and cancelling. However, I've also seen videos of Canadian customs officials compelling travelers as a condition of entering Canada. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
^^^^^^^^^ Re: “the police are allowed to hold your phone up to your face to unlock your phone.” If you close your eyes face recognition won’t work. Unless you have sunglasses mode enabled. I’m not sure that sunglasses mode exists. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Member |
I'm surprised that no one has created a replacement OS that has supports two passwords ... one that logs you in and a second that "logs you in" then erases data. | |||
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| Member |
Closest I am aware of is ten failed attempts on my phone and it wipes itself. I can then re-load it from the cloud so if it’s ever taken by LE it’s just a matter of not looking at it for face unlock to work. A few failed of those and it defaults back to code only. Reality is the Feds can break in anyway. | |||
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| Member |
Also not a lawyer but even if compelled I am not sure how you prosecute someone who says they can't remember the password. "I wrote it down somewhere, let me see if I can find it". Of course it is bullshit but is it provable to be bullshit? Maybe with the court order they can go straight to the phone company. | |||
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