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https://www.instagram.com/robb..._index=robbystarbuck

Go to any HD dealer right now and look at their excess inventory Their nonsense hadn't been exposed yet when I bought mine back in '22 which is unfortunate. I probably would have ended up with a Gold Wing if they had pushed this shit sooner. As it stands, not gonna throw my bike out because of their policies, just won't get another.

HD has been shooting themselves in the foot for a long time. Why stop now?

To be fair, you've gotta try something when your customers are so old that your best selling model is a trike.

HD is heading for bankruptcy, and it’s not related to the woke crap. Their average buyer is now a decade older. They haven’t attracted any younger buyers. Their customer base will soon age out of the market, and then HD will be gone.

quote:

HD is heading for bankruptcy, and it’s not related to the woke crap …

Maybe not, but this will do nothing but speed up the process. Why piss off the few customers that are left?

posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Go to any HD dealer right now and look at their excess inventory …

I don't know when it happened, but a large H-D dealership in this area (Morristown, TN) closed down altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
HD is heading for bankruptcy, and it’s not related to the woke crap. Their average buyer is now a decade older. They haven’t attracted any younger buyers. Their customer base will soon age out of the market, and then HD will be gone.

HD was moving in the right direction when it introduced the Pan American and Bronx and while they ended up building the Pan Am they killed the Bronx which also killed bringing in new buyers to the brand. Instead Harley is relying on selling a few high-end motorcycles instead of manufacturing less expensive models which also is hurting the brand because lots of riders can't afford or choose not to buy a 30 grand plus motorcycle. Unfortunately HD hasn't learned from Budweisers mistake of going woke and may face the same full abandonment from brand loyalists.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: calugo,

That's fine, I'm sure that their electrical doodad is going to save the world either way.

The current CEO Jochen Zeitz is a poster child for the globalist/WEF agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
The current CEO Jochen Zeitz is a poster child for the globalist/WEF agenda.

Yeah Zeitz is pretty sad, but the blame is on the shoulders of the board of directors for hiring and keeping him.

Also as mentioned their customer base is aging out, but so are every motorcycle manufacturer's. In spite of our population increasing since 2007, total motorcycle sales (not just HD) are now 1/2 what they were then.

How about them abandoning the Sportster? Manufactured (and updated) since the mid 1950's it was maybe the most iconic air cooled, V-Twin motorcycle they ever made with a 60 year history.... gone in 2022.

Then there's Polaris/Indian beating Harley at their own game in some categories. The Pan Am and new Sportster replacement have been 1 step above a total flop. Just looking at their current line-up most models have unridable ergonomics, ground clearance, and suspension, for any distance, instead focusing on "cruiser styling". To make matters worse many of their bread and butter Tourers have been discontinued with the emphasis now on high dollar custom CVO type units. So no basic Road King, Electra Glide Standard, EG Custom, etc., mostly $30K+ Ultra's and "custom" Street Glides. Harley has basically abandoned offering a broad line-up of models that appeal to customers who just want to buy a nice, American, motorcycle to ride.

Their Live Wire battery motorcycles have also been a very expensive flop. The board of directors have made so many awful decisions it's a wonder they haven't already bankrupted the company.

Harley has chosen to go maximum profit on each unit sold instead of staying with what has kept them in business and iconic for over 100 years. They average $3700 profit/unit sold. That can’t go on forever as sales continue to drop year in year out.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

Yeah Zeitz is pretty sad, but the blame is on the shoulders of the board of directors for hiring and keeping him.

I don't disagree about the BoD. Zeitz was on the board for years before he became CEO and initially was only to be an "interim CEO." Then Covid came and he decided he liked running things, so he took the job full time and is now chairman of the board and is essentially running the company unchecked like he owns it. The whole board is worthless. H-D hasn't had a board member with motorcycle or recreational powersports experience on the board since Don James of Deeley/H-D Canada about 15 years ago. But they have had execs from Boeing, Starbucks, Levis, Chipotle, etc. Others come from a heavy manufacturing background, which doesn't really relate to what H-D does.

I worked at H-D corporate in Milwaukee for over 15 years in marketing and PR so there is plenty more I could say, but I don't feel like typing that much.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Also as mentioned their customer base is aging out, but so are every motorcycle manufacturer's. In spite of our population increasing since 2007, total motorcycle sales (not just HD) are now 1/2 what they were then.

I would say it’s lower than that if going back to 2001. Youngsters, they do not care about things requiring physical effort, skill. Things you have to work at to learn. They live that convenience life and internet > everything else. idevices from whatever mfr are way more important.

I think H-D is heading for trouble, akin to the time before AMF bought the company.

Focusing on high end models, virtual elimination of entry level bikes, selling 5k Harley branded electric bikes. Zeitz has been changing the direction of the MoCo and not for the better IMO

Doesn’t help when the typical dealer mode today is to use the same tricks as auto dealers, sell high and then hammer them in the F&I office for every penny possible.

The MoCo isn’t friendly to dealers either, between “persuading” them to sell to dealer groups and elimination of the small mom and pop stores especially in rural areas.

Corporate restrictions on selling genuine H-D parts to independent repair shops, selling to consumers outside of your normal marketing area aka Internet sales was frowned upon and could get a dealer in deep doo-do with the MoCo.

The SHTF someday, maybe sooner than later.

bigwagon,

I quit in 2022 after working part time in H-D dealers for 23 years. Biggest reason is the rise in corporate ownership of dealerships. In those you become nothing but a number, a “So what if he quits, we’ll get someone we can teach to muddle along”

I agree with what you said. I couldn’t see what Zeitz brought to the table then or now. Kind of the Harley version of the famous Roger Smith, the one I blame for being the main architect of the failure of GM.

On the other hand, just bought a new Heritage and it is really nice.

No arguments on the quality and technology that’s put into the bikes.

Harley Davidson management needs to remember the loyal customers that got them through all the lean times. When the economy dumps, the fashion riders/boutique buyers rein in on their non essential spending, first thing to go are the toys. 2009-2012 we saw that a lot. Although bikes were selling albeit slower the add on accessory purchases that usually accompanied those took a severe nosedive.

HD makes some very nice motorcycles. Truth is however they have been bailed out by the government more than once. At some point that should end.
Maybe now is the time…
Mike

When did the government bailout H-D?

From what I remember 1969 was the year American Machine and Foundry bought the company from the family members, privately owned at that time.

During a decline in sales, hints that AMF was looking to either shut down or sell off the company and the economic downturn at the tie a group of H-D executives started the wheels in motion to buy the company. That group petitioned the Federal government to put in place a tariff on foreign motorcycles over a certain displacement to level the playing field.

Before the tariffs were set to expire Harley petitioned (from memory) to have them lifted early.

I know H-D has had some EPA issues, here is one of them, from 2017:
Harley-Davidson Clean Air Act Settlement

Settlement Resources
Consent Decree
(Washington, DC) The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) reached a settlement with Harley-Davidson, Inc., Harley-Davidson Motor Company Group, LLC, Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Company, Inc., and Harley-Davidson Motor Company Operations, Inc. (collectively Harley-Davidson), that requires the companies to stop selling and to buy back and destroy illegal tuning devices that increase air pollution from their motorcycles, and to sell only tuning devices that are certified to meet Clean Air Act emissions standards. Harley-Davidson will also pay a $12 million civil penalty.

For a while in the late 70's and 1980's the Japanese were literally selling motorcycles in the US for less than what it cost them to make them. Of course they couldn't keep that up indefinitely but it sure is a good way to run your competitors out of business.