I have a colleague, who is 27 or 28 and has been an Attorney for about four years. Today I sat next to him at a lunch spot near the downtown courthouse and the subject turned to the events in the subject thread. Now this young man, I won't call him a kid, is reasonably squared away as compared to his contemporaries, he doesn't have the Johnny Depp look going, not wearing a Flag lapel pin upside down, or has BLM or ACAB all about his persona. The young man works for the public defenders division and is reasonably articulate and not lost in woke speak. However after our conversation, which was civil and was diametrically opposite, I've concluded he's a product of our public school and college socialist indoctrination.

The conversation turned to student loans, I said that I went to law school later in life and worked and paid my way through school with very little loan debt, it was hard but I did it. My colleague told me he has student loan debt that is crushing, but will be forgiven in part if he continues for a period of time as a public defender, the other part he believes that although he was given loans for and was obligated to pay back by current laws, throughout schooling in grammar and high school he was taught that college should be free for all and government would provide his education for him, this he said began around 3rd grade and continued through high school. I mentioned the notion of no free ride, but he said that Biden's actions in loan forgiveness was the start of what his teachers said should and would occur.I said that why should I or my friend who's a plumber pay for the lawyer or doctor's education. His response was equity and fairness, in school throughout at all levels the teachers and professors taught that equity was a more guiding principle than self reliance. He told me how one of his sociology professors said that members of society who generate incomes more than average should be tasked to pay for those choosing callings such as medicine and law, and that is helping the community and is fair. I disagreed and said it isn't fair to.the plumber who works 80 or 90 hours to make more than the average income or build his business. Here he said this is where government needs to regulate a living wage and to level people to that for equity. I said that's socialism, his response was it seemed to people of my generation to be socialism, but in essence it's correction of past injustices and inequities in our financial and education culture. My response was I grew up in the inner city, blue collar living, and worked to pay for my schooling and all I have I earned. The response I received was that the system of my time failed me by instilling those ideas. My hard work to achieve my goals caused others to be unequal in attaining education and goals, the education system perpetuated the myth that hard work and self reliance would raise people up, but it did the opposite and government providing equal opportunity to all for the field of study they wanted was a way to ensure fairness for all.

I said that isn't the American way, or values of our country, work hard, put in the time and achieve success. I was told that this way of thinking was what his teachers and professors identified as the root cause of our systematic inequities and racial divide in this country. The teachings that I ascribed to, working hard, providing for myself, created an inherent privilege and bias towards people because of my perceived success in reaching my goals. Respectfully he said that I did succeed but my success by the means I achieved it created a societal and racial deviseness that is taking generations to undue. He did concede that despite how he was taught, his success did cause others to be kept down, because we as a citizenry hasn't elected leadership that will ensure equity, fairness and a living wage for all persons regardless of their profession or field.

As much as I wanted to continue the talk, I had to get back to court. I said my hard work that I put in today, my preparation and study for cases is why I achieved results I get and the compensation I receive from clients. His response was that my clients took advantage of the financial disparities in society to exploit the system for their results. On that note I headed back to court, I've joked about how I was worried about what schools,colleges and educators were doing to kids and what they were instilling, now I'm scared for the future our education system needs an overhaul.

Your colleague needs a spanking. Or a punch in the mouth.

But, at least, he's talking and not shouting you down.

You know the saying - if you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain.

Just continue talking to him until he grows one.

I'm sure you know, the differences are based on the presumptions or presuppositions you and he hold. Just get to those presuppositions and discuss their validity.

Twisted from reality...I guess they stopped teaching critical thinking along the way too!

Yeah, that is why my wife and I homeschooled our kids 20 years ago.

That fact that he was talking with you is a good thing.
Just keep planting seeds of the truth for him. Eventually he will be in a spot where the "woke or in crowd" will bite his hand for not being "real enough" over something that he doesn't see as important, and he will remember your words.

hang in there, he is not totally lost.

This is why after high school, if the kid hasn't joined the military, they should be sent overseas for 2 years of service in a country with true poverty and corruption to see how fortunate we have it here in America.

3 of 4 grand parents were teachers, one was even from [gasp] “up north” and were registered democrats…but all of them acted in conservative ways, they taught me and my brothers conservative values…save, work hard, don’t bow to anyone, work for what you want and the world is your oyster. Shit they even belonged to the teachers union….My parents were the same way…I know my dad (he’s from up north too) was a democrat..not sure about mom, but they never once told us that the world owns us anything-you have to work for what you reap.

The products of institutionalized indoctrination. Another old-fashioned term is "brain-washing".

In 1968 the choices were pretty much limited to:

1. Have the grades to qualify for college admission, get the scholarships, and pursue that path; or

2. Take your chances with selective service, get drafted, go to Vietnam.

I was drafted, sent to Vietnam (airborne infantry), returned as a 19YO sergeant, accepted to Warrant Officer Flight Training (requiring a 3-year extension), washed out due to inner ear/vertigo issues (you don't want me piloting your helicopter, trust me), and sent back to Vietnam again.

Enrolled in college extension courses via the US Armed Forces Institute, completed over 2 years of general studies coursework while overseas. Returned to the States, enrolled in college part-time while still on active duty. Left active service in 1972, joined the police department, continued part-time college using GI Bill benefits.

No student loan debt, but my tuition and college expenses required a different kind of payment. 4-1/2 years active military service, 21 months in a combat zone, 4 Purple Heart medals. 50 years later I was awarded service-connected disability compensation.

Given the opportunity for a do-over, I might be very happy to take the Pell Grants and sign up for a mess of student loans, probably sit in classrooms and lecture halls to have my brain re-wired by a bunch of "educators" with little or no connection to the realities of life.

Useful idiots.

Ask your friend if all pay and benefits, for lawyers and burger flippers, should be the same.

I hate to say it, but you know as well as I do that the legal field in general is inundated with social Marxist groupthink. Seems like our state and local bar associations are always pushing pro bono “opportunities”, often to “serve” “underserved” or “disadvantaged” “communities”. Then there’s the more neo-woke language filtering in with terms like DEI and BIPOC becoming commonplace even in CLE programming.

One of the things I like about Maryland is that we have no pro bono or CLE requirements here. But every year, we have to do pro bono and client trust account reporting and there’s always a survey question - “what would motivate you to do more pro bono work next year”, or “what prevents you from doing more pro bono work”? My answer is always along the lines of “pay my billing rate for it.”

What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: “No.” Altruism says: “Yes.”

Ayn Rand, Philosophy: Who Needs It, “Faith and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World,”

-Rob

What did the communists say back in the 50's?
Something about "this generation is lost, but give me their children"

Well... They taught this kid the right way.

"Equity is more important than self reliance"
Indoctrination since he was a child.

The exact opposite of what I'm teaching my kids.

So he considers it "fair" to be more equal than others.

Like he's some sort of elite.

If his ass is so about "fair" 100% of his time should be free to practice his craft as others are entitled to it and receive a government stipend that is equal to the plumber's wages or the trash pick up man's wages.

THAT is fair and equitable.

A) He’s a public defender. I know is depressing to meet a Communist, but public defenders aren’t usually that with it, mentally.

B) Ask him what gives him the right to rob others. Most of the young soft heads have also been drilled to abhors violence. Explaining that socialism relies on violence, abd the free market in voluntary exchange can help.

How is he a lawyer and doesn’t understand that there’s simply no such thing as “free” anything in this life???

“Education should be free” huh?

Maybe ask him how teachers and professors will work for free then?

SOMEBODY is paying

Just because someone went through law school and passed the bar means they have a clue. I work with lawyers today, most of them are have a strong left leaning attitude. One of them I think of as a Slinky. By it self it he rather useless. But if I were to watch him fall down some stairs, it would bring a smile to my face. But then again, he is the focal point to this months threats of a lawsuit against my team.

Maybe everyone who is dealing with cancer should get $20,000. They didn't even sign up for it. Maybe everyone who has a mortgage and was "ripped off" by the bank should get $20,000. Heck let's just give everybody $20,000 for possible injustices. It's only money!

I went to Vo-Tech school, learned a trade, & made a good career of it. I don't see how that makes me responsible to pay for someone else's college degree in a potentially more lucrative career than I've had.

Screw that, I'll quit working first. This is mostly a done deal anyway since I plan to retire in the next year. The work force isn't what it once was, they can figure it out without me.

Thread drift: Not political but germane to the discussion at hand.

The recent election had me selecting for "non-partisan" offices such as judges and Justices of the Peace. Upon doing my research I generally found two types of lawyers running for those offices. A lot were public defenders endorsed by local & national labor unions. Others were prosecutors endorsed by law enforcement organizations. Guess which I chose.

He is a public defender in Boston.

His entire existence is centered around people not having to pay for their own bad decisions.

What did you expect exactly?

I used to work with a girl that told me that she and her husband got student loans and used the money to live off of . She said they had no intention of paying them back . Well , ok then ..

Your colleague needs a simple dose of what we call "the real world."

Yes, I'm not going to post the Winston Churchill quote, although it is great.

It is correct though. When i was younger, i was a liberal idiot. I was.

I didn't have shit for life experience. What I knew was that I didn't have anything easy, and goddammit, I wanted easy. Who wouldn't?

The NUMBER ONE thing, that makes liberals into conservatives, is to have to pay for all the bullshit. Having to PAY for other fools to make foolish, dumb-ass decisions will change a man.

This guy may want his student loans paid, but just wait til it's time for his taxes to go up to pay for the next crop in indoctrinated fools... I bet his fiddle gets a new set of strings then.

Sadly, folks like him don't learn until it's too late.