quote:

Originally posted by ChuckFinley:

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Originally posted by smithnsig:
My grandfather hit a turkey at about 140 mph in a 1971 Plymouth GTX. It totaled the car.

That's going really all out for a turkey

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Originally posted by TXJIM:

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
You realize that runway you are talking about is 2 miles long. So congrats that sitting on your porch at zero airspeed and not trying to land a 75 ton jet you can see 100 yards. Whoop de fucking do. What’s your actual point? Because it sounds disturbingly close to you are implying that this was avoidable. Which it wasn’t. Not the aircrews fault, not the towers fault.

Jesus fucking Christ dude. One previous poster said it was dark so the tower couldn't see him. Another poster said the aircrew may have seen him in the landing lights. All I said is, it's not fucking dark....period. Just clearing that up for those commenting about it being dark. I made no assertion as to any fault of pilots or controllers. I don't give a fuck if it's high noon on the summer equinox, if you are traipsing across an airport runway and get smoked by a 737 it's no ones fault but your own.

Clear enough for you sparky?

I think pedropcola was commenting about the post just above his with the video of the dude on his porch.

No, I watched that video. It was a video. I was commenting on the ignorance of comparing sitting on your porch at dusk and landing an airliner at dusk. Apples and oranges. We used to call it pinky time. Officially after dark but not dark. Not like sitting on your porch either though. Yet again though people who don’t know Jack shit about something think they do. The tower is probably a mile or more away from the runway in question. Even more depending on where the guy decided to plant himself. Once the jet is on the ground and reverse is deployed they are committed. Seeing 100 yards on your porch isn’t even in the same category of looking out an airliner’s little windows and is pitched up for landing besides focusing on landing zone not down the runway.

Visibility while flying at official sunset is still reduced regardless of what porch numb nuts thinks. Pontificate away though.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
No, I watched that video. It was a video. I was commenting on the ignorance of comparing sitting on your porch at dusk and landing an airliner at dusk. Apples and oranges. We used to call it pinky time. Officially after dark but not dark. Not like sitting on your porch either though. Yet again though people who don’t know Jack shit about something think they do. The tower is probably a mile or more away from the runway in question. Even more depending on where the guy decided to plant himself. Once the jet is on the ground and reverse is deployed they are committed. Seeing 100 yards on your porch isn’t even in the same category of looking out an airliner’s little windows and is pitched up for landing besides focusing on landing zone not down the runway.

Visibility while flying at official sunset is still reduced regardless of what porch numb nuts thinks. Pontificate away though.

You know, I didn't make a single comment insinuating that I knew anything about flying a plane. I didn't make a single comment about what could be seen from the plane before, during or after landing. I didn't make a single comment about what could be seen from the tower. So what the actual fuck is your problem aside from being a fucking know it all that reads people's minds?

But since it clearly agitates the ever loving shit out of you, I am sitting on my porch right now at 8:25 PM and guess what...... It's still not fucking dark!

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

The tower is probably a mile or more away from the runway in question.

Yes sir, you are correct. On page 2 of this thread, I posted a link to the airport diagram.

It looks like the distance from the tower to the touchdown zone of RWY 17R is a bit more than one mile.

Tower is 185 ft tall, eyeball level in the cab would be a bit less than that. The terminal building is in a direct line between tower and touchdown zone, so if the pedestrian was in the first couple thousand feet of the runway, tower's view might very well have been obstructed, depending on height of terminal building, which is not shown on the diagram.

Apparently the flight crew did see the man on the runway, they must have had their night vision goggles on


“The Southwest aircraft maneuvered to avoid an individual who became visible on runway 17R shortly after touch down,” Southwest said in a statement.

Audio between the Southwest Airlines pilot and the air traffic control tower described what unfolded on the runway.

Southwest: “Tower, Southwest 1392, we believe there might be a person on the runway.”
ABIA Tower: “Southwest 1392, where exactly do you see the man?”
Southwest: “Well they, uh, they’re behind us, they’re behind us now.”
ABIA Tower: “Southwest 1392, roger. So you saw them just after you touched down?”
Southwest: “Affirm.”
ABIA Tower: “1392, roger.”

https://www.kxan.com/news/loca...dentified-by-police/

It says the pilot tried to maneuver to avoid the person, isn’t that bad just like trying to swerve to avoid a deer? He could have flipped or crashed the plane, I think it would’ve just been better to brace and hit the poor person unfortunately just like you have to hit a deer and not swerve and run into a tree and kill yourself?

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Originally posted by PASig:
It says the pilot tried to maneuver to avoid the person, isn’t that bad just like trying to swerve to avoid a deer? He could have flipped or crashed the plane, I think it would’ve just been better to brace and hit the poor person unfortunately just like you have to hit a deer and not swerve and run into a tree and kill yourself?

Oh dear god, you better delete this post. Pedro is going to come in here and rip you a new asshole for not knowing anything about maneuvering a plane on the ground

Screw you TXIJM. You don’t know shit about what you are talking about, someone who does tells you that visibility from your porch doesn’t equate to landing an airplane. You don’t like that. Vis at dusk is degraded. It’s not dark but it’s not noon either. You have lots more shadows and the low sun angle is a bitch. Just like sitting on your porch you dumb motherfucker.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
It says the pilot tried to maneuver to avoid the person, isn’t that bad just like trying to swerve to avoid a deer? He could have flipped or crashed the plane, I think it would’ve just been better to brace and hit the poor person unfortunately just like you have to hit a deer and not swerve and run into a tree and kill yourself?

Neither one.

'Maneuver' is a relative term. The airplane has a nosewheel which becomes effective at low speeds, but has primarily rudder steering at higher speeds. Rudder steering, through the nosewheel, is only 10 degrees either side of center, not much, and at higher speeds, is limited by inertia and aerodynamic stability. Simply put, at higher speeds (landing speeds), you could put full rudder input, and the aircraft will keep going in the direction of travel. It may yaw slightly, but it isn't really going anywhere. Likewise, configured for landing, one could make a change in pitch, but it's not going to do a lot other than strike the gear.

Approaching the runway, it's critical that the airplane is flown in a stable configuration; airspeed, flap and gear settings, power settings, rate of descent. From that stable configuration, to effect a go around, any maneuvering will not produce a rapid result. The airplane is flown at 1.2 to 1.3 times the stall speed. To go around requires a power change which takes several seconds to get an engine response and then an dynamic change in aircraft state (acceleration). Once the airplane touches down and ground spoilers deploy, and auto brakes deploy, a go-around is no longer an option, or may not be an option depending on runway. For a man running onto the runway, it's irrelevant, as neither time, or ability to detect and react exist, nor does the option for any significant manvering exist.

When the article states that the pilots "maneuvered," it's an inaccurate and overly optimistic choice of words.

As for the ability to see other objects, it's also rather optimistic to think the crew might see or avoid.

The flight approaching at a ground speed of approximately 140 knots (about 160 mph) is monitoring the aircraft instrumentation as well as the runway. The runway definition is the lighting on the edges of the runway rather than the surface or surrounding objects, which may blend in depending on shadowing or contrast or color. Relative movement of objects also is important in visual detection; something that's not moving may be difficult or impossible to see.

Over the years, I've had everything run onto a runway from horses to people to skunks, vehicles, other aircraft, coyotes, deer, moose and elk, kids, even a large desert tortoise. I've had to go around for all of those, as well as tower directions, windshear alerts, and mortar fire striking the runway.

Low light, neither daylight nor night, makes detection of objects on the runway difficult, changes depth perception, denies contrast, and is a time of transition from visual day to visual night conditions when more reliance is placed on lighting for depth, than visually acquiring the runway edge or centerline markings.

Add to that the fact that many airports have coloring or growth alongside the runway which may disguise objects; a person's shirt or clothing color may play a big part. There's a big difference between the way objects look from ground level in a car or sitting at one's home, to the way they look when approaching from above, descending into them, at a high speed.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy
Over the years, I've had everything run onto a runway from horses to people to skunks, vehicles, other aircraft, coyotes, deer, moose and elk, kids, even a large desert tortoise. I've had to go around for all of those, as well ....

If you’re ever in SW VA I’d like to buy you a beer and here some of those stories!

OK, fellas. Take it easy, please.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Screw you TXIJM. You don’t know shit about what you are talking about, someone who does tells you that visibility from your porch doesn’t equate to landing an airplane. You don’t like that. Vis at dusk is degraded. It’s not dark but it’s not noon either. You have lots more shadows and the low sun angle is a bitch. Just like sitting on your porch you dumb motherfucker.

Haha, you have some serious issues. Go back and look at your first post, pointed at me, in this thread. I have no issue being educated by someone who knows more than me on any subject.

In fact, I was overtly clear in the post just before yours, in response to someone else, that I was not making a comment about fault or the particulars of flying. Only that "sunset" does not equal "dark" as a point of clarity.

Now this is where most well adjusted regular folks with specific knowledge might weigh in and discuss their experience flying at this time of day and how the impact of fading light is compounded in an aircraft cockpit, etc. You could have easily shared that knowledge about flying at sunset in a calm and credible manner like most any normal person would.

Oh not you though, you seem much more at home belittling people, assuming their intent and otherwise behaving like a giant throbbing Johnson. So you were responded to in kind and don't seem to have liked it much.

I am curious though, once they touched down how did the flight crew see the guy far enough out to attempt to avoid him.....oh, yeah because it wasn't fucking dark you asshole!

My bad, Para, I was in the editing pane when you posted.

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Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy
Over the years, I've had everything run onto a runway from horses to people to skunks, vehicles, other aircraft, coyotes, deer, moose and elk, kids, even a large desert tortoise. I've had to go around for all of those, as well ....

If you’re ever in SW VA I’d like to buy you a beer and here some of those stories!

Fortunately, there's not a lot to tell. I haven't hit anything other than birds on runways, so far. I'd imagine that there would be a story if it were a skunk, though.

I did an ambulance flight out of Shiprock, NM, in which we had a bull near the airplane when we got back from the hospital. We decided to park the ambulance between the airplane and the bull while loading the patient, to protect the patient. It was close to dark and we had no runway lighting, but we had to move the patient.

I had a 1911 .45 handy that I was going to use to discourage the bull, but a flight nurse freaked out, someting about hitting a child (there's nobody for a long, long way around that airport). We drove it back a little way with the ambulance, then parked the ambulance at the far end of the field, lights toward us. That enabled spotting the bull if it attempted to cross the runway during takeoff, by silhouetting the bull.

As it turned out, the bull did try to wander back. I applied flap and power and was able to get airborne and past the bull before we briefly touched down again, and then came off the ground with enough distance to clear the ambulance.

Critters on the runway, especially rural and dirt runways, weren't that unusual.

Folks on the runway at large, international airports, not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I haven't hit anything other than birds on runways, so far. I'd imagine that there would be a story if it were a skunk, though.

My ex-wife's uncle was an AF pilot. One time, flying a Gulf Stream transporting VIP's, he came into Vandenberg AFB under heavy fog. After committing to the landing, he found a herd of deer on the runway. No way to miss them, but he did manage to keep it together so no humans were hurt.

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Originally posted by TXJIM:
My bad, Para, I was in the editing pane when you posted.

Right. It took you more than 18 minutes to compose that post. Got it.

And when you finally discovered my post, you didn't go back and edit or delete your post- which would be the appropriate thing to do- you just tacked an apology on the end of it.

How 'bout I just lock this thing, since some of you guys are bound and determined to get your shots in despite my direction?

I wasn't born yesterday, guys.

A friend of mine, "Skip" Boles, was a test pilot in the US of Air Force at Eglin AFB.

He was flying an A-10 during a particular mission on a late afternoon go, and just finished the EOR (End of Runway) check, taxied to position for take-off when he came over the radio and mentioned he needed to "hold short for wildlife".

We thought it was deer on te runaway, as often were the case that a few deer would wander out on to the active and then off into the infield areas to graze, or continue into the woods. Typically this was normal during early dawn and dusk.

After several minutes, OPS contacted Skip and asked his status, and he stated he was still waiting.

After a few minutes, he was again asked and he stated that he was waiting for a Gopher Tortise to get off and into the grassy area off the runway.

And someone came on the radio and stated; "So another first. A 'hog (Warthog), outrun by a turtle!"

Then someone keyed and said; "Please maintain radio discipline..."

Followed by multiple mic clicks.

RIP, Skip. You, and others, are missed.


I am almost out of nickles.

I'm out of grass.

Copy. 3guppy, out of grass.... Goodnight.