Starbucks to Close 8,000 Stores for Racial Bias Training

June 14, 2023, 04:43 PM

jhe888

quote:
Originally posted by oddball:
Payback

"A New Jersey federal jury awarded a white Starbucks manager $25 million after finding the coffee giant fired her because of her race. Starbucks terminated Shannon Phillips in 2018 after two black men were arrested at a Rittenhouse square, Philadelphia, store, the Daily Mail reported. Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson were waiting for a third person to arrive for a business meeting. The men were refused access to the bathroom since they did not purchase anything. An employee called 911 on the men, and they were detained by police, the Law.com reported.

The arrests caused widespread protests, and Starbucks temporarily closed 8,000 stores so employees could participate in racial-bias education training.

Phillips argued that Starbucks only punished white employees over the incident as a way to repair their public image. The black supervisor of the Starbucks, Paul Skyes, reportedly did not receive any disciplinary action from the company. As a regional manager, Phillips oversaw over 100 stores across Philadelphia, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland and had been with company for 13 years.

She was reportedly instructed to place a white manager of 15 years from another store on administrative leave due to allegations of racial discrimination. Employees claimed that black employees were making less than white employees, but the manager had no control over wages. Phillips pushed back on suspending the manager since she had never seen him display discriminatory behavior.

One week after the incident Phillips was fired, according to Restaurant Business. She claimed she was fired since Starbucks needed a scapegoat after the company said the “situation is not recoverable.” The jury awarded her $25 million in punitive damages and $600,000 in compensatory damages."

https://www.breitbart.com/poli...her-for-being-white/

I doubt that punitive damages award will hold up on appeal. There is law about punitive damages awards with that sort of large multiple over the actual damages amount being improper and even violating due process standards. I don't know what else might be in the record of this case giving rise to appeal, but that alone seems like a valid appeal. They might file their appeal, and then settle the case before the case is heard or decided on appeal.

June 14, 2023, 05:03 PM

parabellum

Yeah, Mr. Sunshine, don't forget to get ahead of losing. Make sure that you "just" tell us your opinion. That's "all" you're doing, right?

Sooner or later, you guys are going to get what I keep trying to get across to you. Don't hurry to be miserable. What good does it do? Someone brings us a bit of good news and you have to shoot it down ASAP. Perhaps the ruling stands, perhaps it doesn't. Is it such a bad thing to wait and see what actually happens? You don't know to a certainty, so just let it ride, huh? Or does that make too much sense?

June 14, 2023, 05:13 PM

sdy

If the two men had just bought a cup of coffee, this whole thing would never have happened.

Why do people think they can just hang out in a coffee shop without buying something ?

June 14, 2023, 05:15 PM

6guns

^^^ Way too sensible and logical, sdy!

June 14, 2023, 05:21 PM

jhe888

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Yeah, Mr. Sunshine, don't forget to get ahead of losing. Make sure that you "just" tell us your opinion. That's "all" you're doing, right?

Sooner or later, you guys are going to get what I keep trying to get across to you. Don't hurry to be miserable. What good does it do? Someone brings us a bit of good news and you have to shoot it down ASAP. Perhaps the ruling stands, perhaps it doesn't. Is it such a bad thing to wait and see what actually happens? You don't know to a certainty, so just let it ride, huh? Or does that make too much sense?

I have the advantage here of actually knowing what I am talking about. This isn't a mere matter of opinion or speculation. There is a lot of law that indicates that this award will not hold up in an appeals court. Juries sometimes get mad and go nuts on punitives, and those awards are very often reduced pursuant to law. These questions are not subject to the unfettered discretion of the courts of appeals. (I do not even know if this was the final judgment of the trial court, or is just the jury verdict. The report talks about a jury verdict, but reporters can't be relied on to be scrupulously correct about such things. If it is a report of the verdict, the trial court may reduce the award and sign a judgment with a smaller punitive award. That is within the power of a trial court.) This is not pessimism. This is reality. It doesn't make one bit of sense to see an award like this and think it will last.

If an engineer looked at some plan for a building and said, "Jeeze, that roof will not hold up in a 50 mile an hour wind," I presume you would not tell him to buck up and quit being such a downer. "Have faith, build it anyway, lets see what happens. Be positive." Or, "That tire with 1/8" of tread is fine. Go ahead and set out on your cross country road trip. Who can be sure the tire will fail? Wait and see what happens."

If it makes you happy to cling to unrealistic hopes, please carry on. Many people prefer to set expectations in accordance with reality.

June 14, 2023, 05:55 PM

parabellum

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
I have the advantage here of actually knowing what I am talking about. This isn't a mere matter of opinion or speculation.

You don't get it, you cocky son of a bitch. You're not as half as smart as you think you are. I don't give the first fuck that you're a lawyer. YOU DO NOT KNOW TO A CERTAINTY WHAT WILL HAPPEN. PERIOD

quote:
If it makes you happy to cling to unrealistic hopes, please carry on. Many people prefer to set expectations in accordance with reality.

STOP trying to bring down the members of this forum with your Goddamned "realistic expectations" horse shit. Let members savor a victory. Get it through your fucking head!!

I am telling you and I have said it MANY, MANY times- more times than I can count: I- that is >>I<<, the owner and the administrator of this forum- WHOSE WORD IS LAW here- want you guys to refrain from trying to bring down members, no matter what your intent, what your experience, your metier, your profession or your opinion. Let members have a victory. The entire Goddamned world is crashing down on these guys. Everything is upside down. Every day brings new disappointments and more evidence of the destruction of our society and of common sense, and no one here needs to hear you strutting around with your Goddamned law license pinned to your fucking chest.

GET IT, Mister I-AM-REALISM-ITSELF??

I have told you, I have told the membership in general, and I know that you are aware of my position on these things and there is NO GOOD GODDAMNED REASON for you to flap your fucking gums like you're telling children that their puppy got run over. It's USELESS. You don't need to "break" the truth to anyone here. I swear to God, with the way you behave, you'd think that passing the Bar was the same as having a 200 I.Q.

Can you fucking understand that?

June 14, 2023, 06:20 PM

PASig

quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
If the two men had just bought a cup of coffee, this whole thing would never have happened.

Why do people think they can just hang out in a coffee shop without buying something ?

Yes, this.

And she was following established protocol for Starbucks at the time, which was to challenge anyone camping out and not buying anything and then you eventually made them leave one way or another. In this case she ended up having to call the cops and then it all went sideways.

June 14, 2023, 09:25 PM

oddball

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
If it makes you happy to cling to unrealistic hopes, please carry on. Many people prefer to set expectations in accordance with reality.

The whole message of the Phillips story is that a victory, maybe in your eyes a minor one, but a victory nonetheless, over a very woke, Fortune 500 company that fired her because she was white, is a huge move forward. To my knowledge, I don't think these judgements come along everyday in today's world. Yeah, you're the educated attorney that knows more about this shit than us unwashed masses, but in my eyes, a federal jury finding Starbucks on the wrong side of this judgement was a great thing to read today. If she doesn't get the 25 mil... she got a federal jury to rule against Starbucks and their racist, woke bullshit.

quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
And she was following established protocol for Starbucks at the time, which was to challenge anyone camping out and not buying anything and then you eventually made them leave one way or another. In this case she ended up having to call the cops and then it all went sideways.

An FYI; the fired employee, Shannon Phillips, was not involved in the original incident with the two black guys, she was not at the store, she did not call police. Her corporate sin was her hesitancy in suspending another white manager, under orders from corporate, who basically did nothing wrong. In fact, the person who was in charge of the original store was black, and not disciplined in the slightest.

June 14, 2023, 09:53 PM

TMats

quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO on April 18, 2018:
My problem with this is; the manager was following her store's policy, her call to the police was calm and non-racial in her description, and the corporation fired her (likely for the social impact).

I foresee the young lady in question (the manager) seeing a sudden financial windfall for wrongful termination (likely to be settled out of court) when the fact it was the store's policy to make that call and the company was willing to lose upwards of $16M in a effort to maintain a certain social perception of their stores.

Prescient

June 14, 2023, 11:05 PM

bigwagon

Hard to be believe it's been five years already. I haven't had a cup of their swill since this incident occurred, and never will again. Just like Bud Light, I am not missing out on anything, so it's about the easiest "boycott" ever.

June 15, 2023, 02:57 AM

wishfull thinker

I saw that this morning pretty early and I've been giggling about it all day. I forwarded this scoop to all of my Libbie semi-buddies out of wanting to be a good neighbor. They've been getting back to me telling me that this won't hold up and I eagerly agree, I bet it's going to be reduced to under $12,000,000, maybe just 10,000,000 and every time I wrote back I put all those zeros in it.

I think I might have mentioned too that I could only imagine the shit-hemorrhage that boss-management had when they got that text from their mouthpiece in the courthouse.

One guy, a lawyer, said I just didn't understand jurisprudence. I told him that sounded like a Pilgrim chicks name, what exactly did he mean.

It's OK though, I have other friends, a couple anyway.

June 15, 2023, 05:15 AM

r0gue

Were I a Starbucks executive, I'd write that $25M check without a blink of hesitation to have this matter go away. Protracted court cases just make things worse for the company overall. If you get four more years of press over this to save $15M, you'll endure that, and drop millions in legal fees.

June 15, 2023, 07:26 AM

Blackmore

quote:
Originally posted by r0gue:
Were I a Starbucks executive, I'd write that $25M check without a blink of hesitation to have this matter go away. Protracted court cases just make things worse for the company overall. If you get four more years of press over this to save $15M, you'll endure that, and drop millions in legal fees.

When Oberlin College decided to appeal (and appeal again) the Gibson decision, it cost them another $11.59M in attorneys' fees and interest.

June 15, 2023, 07:33 AM

HRK

quote:
The whole message of the Phillips story is that a victory, maybe in your eyes a minor one, but a victory nonetheless, over a very woke, Fortune 500 company that fired her because she was white, is a huge move forward. To my knowledge, I don't think these judgements come along everyday in today's world.

Yes, a federal jury ruling that a big company discriminated against a white employee is UUUUUUGE!, it's Winning, and we should enjoy the winning!

Maybe it gets reduced, maybe not, maybe they appeal it to SCOTUS, which if it stands is A UUUUUUUUGE WIN!

June 15, 2023, 09:17 AM

jhe888

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
I have the advantage here of actually knowing what I am talking about. This isn't a mere matter of opinion or speculation.
You don't get it, you cocky son of a bitch. You're not as half as smart as you think you are. I don't give the first fuck that you're a lawyer. YOU DO NOT KNOW TO A CERTAINTY WHAT WILL HAPPEN. PERIOD
quote:
If it makes you happy to cling to unrealistic hopes, please carry on. Many people prefer to set expectations in accordance with reality.
STOP trying to bring down the members of this forum with your Goddamned "realistic expectations" horse shit. Let members savor a victory. Get it through your fucking head!!

I am telling you and I have said it MANY, MANY times- more times than I can count: I- that is >>I<<, the owner and the administrator of this forum- WHOSE WORD IS LAW here- want you guys to refrain from trying to bring down members, no matter what your intent, what your experience, your metier, your profession or your opinion. Let members have a victory. The entire Goddamned world is crashing down on these guys. Everything is upside down. Every day brings new disappointments and more evidence of the destruction of our society and of common sense, and no one here needs to hear you strutting around with your Goddamned law license pinned to your fucking chest.

GET IT, Mister I-AM-REALISM-ITSELF??

I have told you, I have told the membership in general, and I know that you are aware of my position on these things and there is NO GOOD GODDAMNED REASON for you to flap your fucking gums like you're telling children that their puppy got run over. It's USELESS. You don't need to "break" the truth to anyone here. I swear to God, with the way you behave, you'd think that passing the Bar was the same as having a 200 I.Q.

Can you fucking understand that?

Is it fair to say you are trying to create a place here where people will not hear certain things that may bring them down or upset them? Are you are creating a safe space, so to speak, where unpleasant facts or ideas won't intrude?

June 15, 2023, 10:02 AM

parabellum

Moderated Status, thirty days

Happy now, Mister Agitator?

The members of this forum are not your clients whom you have an obligation to advise. I don't care in the least when you offer up your legal experience in random matters which are discussed here, but you are going to refrain from trying to discourage members from feeling good about rare victories, and if you keep it up, I will ban your ass. Don't think I won't, and if you take it as a challenge, trust me, it's a sure bet that I will.

June 15, 2023, 02:43 PM

flashguy

quote:
Originally posted by JR78:
Ever notice there isn’t any Starbucks in the ghetto? This is why. Starbucks is a business, black folks don’t buy $5 coffee.

Neither does this white guy. Only been in a Starbucks once when with a group that chose to go there.

flashguy

June 15, 2023, 02:55 PM

selogic

quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
quote:
Originally posted by JR78:
Ever notice there isn’t any Starbucks in the ghetto? This is why. Starbucks is a business, black folks don’t buy $5 coffee.
Neither does this white guy. Only been in a Starbucks once when with a group that chose to go there.

flashguy

Same here . They built one about 15 minutes from my house on a main drag that I travel a couple of times a week . No desire to give them my money .

June 15, 2023, 03:40 PM

Edmond

quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
quote:
Originally posted by JR78:
Ever notice there isn’t any Starbucks in the ghetto? This is why. Starbucks is a business, black folks don’t buy $5 coffee.
Neither does this white guy. Only been in a Starbucks once when with a group that chose to go there.

flashguy

That damn pesky thing called capitalism at it again...

June 15, 2023, 04:55 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by JR78:
Ever notice there isn’t any Starbucks in the ghetto? This is why. Starbucks is a business, black folks don’t buy $5 coffee.

There's not a lot of Starbuck customers around poor White, Asian and Hispanic neighborhoods either. Starbucks focuses on high-traffic commercial areas, along with middle- and upper-class neighborhoods, basically those areas where the residents have disposable income. Most retail business' have the same outlook when considering opening doors.

You'll also find 1-2 Starbuck locations within proximity of hospitals and schools. A giant chunk of their beverage business is whipped milk-sugar-ice-type drinks which are the 'new milkshakes' for kids. Go to a location when school lets out and its flooded with teenagers ordering the latest social media driven sweet-coffee driven concoction.