SIGforum
Question About Storing Other's Gun
November 19, 2019, 02:26 PM
jhe888Question About Storing Other's Gun
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
I believe transfer is refering to possession, not ownership. The part about shipping firearms to yourself in care of another person is what leads me to this belief. That part says as long as the in care of person doesn't open the box, a transfer hasn't taken place. Merely opening the box would not transfer ownership, but some transfer must occur if the in care of person opens the box. I would say that by opening the box the in care of person now has possession of the firearm. Also, the specific exemptions allowed, borrowing and rental, don't support a transfer of ownership, but do support transfer of possession.
The quoted regulations and statutes are the requirements to make a transfer of ownership, not merely possession. They are not applicable unless you are transferring ownership.
As noted, there is an explicit carve out for storage and a loan, which also do not transfer ownership, but which are questions of possession.
Possession and ownership are two things, and don't necessarily go together. I can own but not possess - if for example you are storing it for me in your safe. I can possess but not own, should I be storing your gun in my safe, for example.
The FFL/transfer rules cover transfers of ownership. You do not need to jump through those hoops for temporary storage or a loan.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. November 19, 2019, 03:12 PM
lymanquote:
Originally posted by ubelongoutside:
quote:
Originally posted by Warhorse:
I am not a lawyer, but I am a lifelong resident of Michigan. Michigan does not register long guns, I see no problem storing someone else's long gun.
The problem I was concerned with was if the question came up of how it got from Illinois to Michigan.
I know we can buy long guns from adjoining states (WI, IN, OH) I know we can buy long guns from adjoining states (WI, IN, OH) without a 4473, but since we don't actually touch IL there would have to be some paper trail. But the exception to this is what should cover me.
that law was changed years ago,
https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/
November 19, 2019, 03:13 PM
trapper189@jhe888:
You're a lawyer and obviously I am not, I'm also reading the USC and CFR on my phone which makes it difficult, and I know zip about applicable case law.
I can't find carve out for storage. There is a carve out for loaning someone a firearm for lawful sporting purposes. In my layman's understanding, loaning someone some thing is not a transfer of ownership, but rather a transfer of possession.
November 19, 2019, 03:32 PM
ffipsShip from IL to MI, leave in package in safe. How could proof of opening be proven?
... connect them .....
November 19, 2019, 04:29 PM
DaBigBRGuys, this is being so ridiculously over thought.
Put it in your safe, take it to the range, make a YouTube video about it - do whatever you want with it. It's a non-NFA long gun. Nobody cares.
November 19, 2019, 05:21 PM
bigdealquote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Guys, this is being so ridiculously over thought.
Put it in your safe, take it to the range, make a YouTube video about it - do whatever you want with it. It's a non-NFA long gun. Nobody cares.
^Bingo.
-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
November 19, 2019, 05:33 PM
smschulzquote:
I can't find carve out for storage.
Why would you need a "carve out" whatever that means?
Transfer and possession are not the same thing.
I don't think you live in a commie state that makes you "register" every weapon and report back every minute of the day - right?
November 19, 2019, 05:42 PM
RHINOWSOquote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Guys, this is being so ridiculously over thought.
Put it in your safe, take it to the range, make a YouTube video about it - do whatever you want with it. It's a non-NFA long gun. Nobody cares.
^Bingo.
Absolutely.
November 19, 2019, 09:51 PM
slosigI'd be inclined to agree with the "stuff it in the safe and don't worry crowd" (at least in a free state), particularly with jhe888 weighing in that transferring refers to ownership, not possession.
If you and your friend wanted to be totally paranoid, he could come, use it, and when he leaves box it up and ship it from your town to himself, care of you. When it arrives, you could throw it in the safe, box and all. That really sounds like overkill to me, but whatever.
November 19, 2019, 10:09 PM
lkdr1989
...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV November 20, 2019, 05:46 AM
sourdough44That’s kinda funny. I think the cat has it figured out.
November 20, 2019, 06:20 AM
trapper189This is what the law says:
18 U.S. Code §922- "(a)It shall be unlawful—
(5)for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;"...
"
to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver"
It is illegal for a unlicensed resident of one state to deliver a firearm to an unlicensed resident of another state. The OP asked about the legalities of what he and his friend were thinking about doing, not whether or not they could get away with it, which I'm sure they would.
If I'm missing something here, I'd really like to know what just to further my understanding of the law.
November 20, 2019, 12:34 PM
jimmy123xquote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
This is what the law says:
18 U.S. Code §922- "(a)It shall be unlawful—
(5)for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;"...
"
to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver"
It is illegal for a unlicensed resident of one state to deliver a firearm to an unlicensed resident of another state. The OP asked about the legalities of what he and his friend were thinking about doing, not whether or not they could get away with it, which I'm sure they would.
If I'm missing something here, I'd really like to know what just to further my understanding of the law.
But he's not delivering it to the OP, he is bringing it to use himself. So the OP is storing it for the owner to use in the future, he's not giving it or surrendering ownership to the OP.