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| Member |
I live in Michigan. My friend lives in Illinois. He is coming to Michigan at Christmas and we are going to shoot. On his way back to Illinois he is detouring to a few places. He is coming back to Michigan in the spring and we will likely shoot again. He asked his dad to store his gun for him between visits and he declined because its an EBR  So he asks me if I would store it, and I say sure, no problem we'll stick it in the safe. Then I start thinking about legalities. Are their any? I don't expect to have any alphabet folks going through my safe ever, but just want to know what I'm getting into if I let him store it for a few months. He's a stand up guy so I know there's no funny stuff with the gun. I actually helped him pick it out and pointed him to an online source for it when I found a good deal. Only concern I would have is something... registered in IL... in your posession without going through FFL... something... me ending up a felon. | ||
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quarter MOA visionary |
Not a lawyer but if it isn't a NFA item then what is the problem? IL laws don't affect anyone in MI ... do they? | |||
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| Page late and a dollar short |
From ATF site: Transferring/Shipping/Possession of Firearms: 4. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to an individual who resides in a different State? What if the individual resides within the same State? Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fa...icensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under a will or by State law upon death of the owner. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5)(A). In regard to transferring firearms between individuals residing in the same state, any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he or she does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. Please note that there may be State and local laws that regulate firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring or transferring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local firearms restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at http://www.naag.org/. 5. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State? Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be - 5 - addressed to the owner of the firearm “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner of the firearm must not open the package or take possession of the firearm. The out-of-State resident is encouraged to place the package in a safe and secure location until the owner of the firearm is available to take physical possession. Interpretation of "transferring" might be something to contact BATF for. At least in my opinion. -------------------------------------—————— ————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman) | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
I don't know Michigan laws, but I can't imagine there being any problem, especially if the firearm stays in your safe. It certainly wouldn't be an issue in Utah. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Member |
If you really wanted to cya just put a cable lock / trigger lock in it and him have the only key and maybe zip tie a tag to it with "property of" and his name and address. Could also pad lock it in a hard case with him having only keys. | |||
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| A day late, and a dollar short  |
I am not a lawyer, but I am a lifelong resident of Michigan. Michigan does not register long guns, I see no problem storing someone else's long gun. ____________________________ NRA Life Member, Annual Member GOA, MGO Annual Member | |||
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Member |
I’ve done similar, during a friend’s divorce. He was out of State. I kept his guns until he got things settled, almost 3 years. I’m sure if you ask enough ‘what if’s’, someone will find a problem with it. | |||
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| Member |
I think Shovelhead gave me what I needed. I knew about this part: "Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fa...censed-persons.html." But I hadn't read this part before: "The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting." While not specifically spelled out, I think this exception would cover what I'm doing. | |||
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| Member |
The problem I was concerned with was if the question came up of how it got from Illinois to Michigan. I know we can buy long guns from adjoining states (WI, IN, OH) without a 4473, but since we don't actually touch IL there would have to be some paper trail. But the exception to this is what should cover me. | |||
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| Page late and a dollar short |
Or if practical assemble a lower with identical internals. You keep his upper, he takes his lower back to Illinois. Then you also have an "excuse" to build an upper for that now unused lower when he takes his upper back to Illinois. Problem solved.....maybe. -------------------------------------—————— ————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman) | |||
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| Member |
I like the way you think, but I'm trying to stay away from building any more. This place has already got me to spend enough on AR parts and components. He really wants to shoot his as a whole, hence why he's bringing it here. He lives in the Shitcago suburbs and doesn't have a good place to shoot it. | |||
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| Member |
I wasn't concerned with IL law, I was concerned about what Shovelhead posted which is Federal law. I know I can't take possession of one from a non-adjoining state without a 4473, but didn't know about the exception. | |||
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| quarter MOA visionary |
So is it your interpretation that "possessing" and "transferring" are the same thing? They are different to me.  | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
I don't think this is a transfer. That means a transfer of ownership, not temporary storage or even a loan. I don't see any barriers as long as Michigan doesn't have some weird law. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
I believe transfer is refering to possession, not ownership. The part about shipping firearms to yourself in care of another person is what leads me to this belief. That part says as long as the in care of person doesn't open the box, a transfer hasn't taken place. Merely opening the box would not transfer ownership, but some transfer must occur if the in care of person opens the box. I would say that by opening the box the in care of person now has possession of the firearm. Also, the specific exemptions allowed, borrowing and rental, don't support a transfer of ownership, but do support transfer of possession. | |||
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Member |
Stop overthinking this. If you know the guy well (which you appear to), and want to do this for him, stick the gun in your safe and forget about it. Unless the brown shirt guys have a drone up over your house and a secret mic in your home, I don't think you have anything to worry about. As an aside, I have two guns stored in one of my safes for a friend, and I never once thought about the legalese about doing that for him. We all need to return to a simpler and less retarded time, and keep our personal dealings personal. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Geez. Have him bring it in a locked case and stick it in a closet. | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
They don’t need a mic inside your house when you post it on the internet. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Member |
Your tinfoil hat's on a bit too tight. No one is going to visit ubelongoutside about this. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
  ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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