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Now hold on there a minute, let's check it out: six months x 30 day/month x 25 miles/day x 1Gal/18 miles x $4/Gal = $1,000 dollars to drive daily for six months, under the above rate assumptions, with an average ICE vehicle, being driven 25 miles per day. So you spent $50, vs $1000 if you had driven an ICE vehicle instead. Is this what you're claiming ? That is definitely a big savings, not including total cost of ownership factors. So here's the big question: How do you know for sure the electricity you used to charge your ride cost you $50 ? Do you have a solar panel ? Do you have electronics that measure the total draw going into your car battery that you can use to accurately calculate your residential electricity cost to charge that baby ? Are EV's really THAT more efficient in driving fuel cost (electricity being the fuel compared to gasoline) compared to ICE technology? There's lots of way to look at EV vs ICE, but those rough figures using those assumptions aren't exactly lining up for me. I know someone who has a top of the line Tesla, and he loves it. But he does not compare them to his high end gas vehicles for longer range use, he bought it for fun and performance for short ranges and commuting. Lover of the US Constitution Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster | |||
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Member |
The 2025 Camry is offered in hybrid only, gets between 45-50mpg depending on model, and every trim level is priced lower than last year's models. | |||
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| Member |
Yea I have to say that sounds like some fuzzy math. If you have panels they weren't free. If you are just paying for an outlet then I still think your math is off. Granted heat pumps aren't efficient but if my wife heats the pool for a couple days I can see the bill go up. 50 bucks of charging for 6 months? I find that tough to believe. Plus, 18 mpg is pretty shitty of a number to use. I have 4 cars and 3 of them are around 30 composite. The last one is a decade old and a big, heavy Highlander. If you care about gas prices you buy something with at least decent mileage. | |||
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| Member |
My neighbor has an F150 Lightening electric truck and the other day I asked him what a full charge costs. He said around $20-25 and gets him around 170 miles. The above math sounds fuzzy. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
Standard Lightning battery is 98kWH with 230 miles range. 170 miles would be about 72 kWH times $.13 per kWH (which seems to be on the higher end for PA) and assuming 90% charger efficiency is $10.40, $11.01 at 85% efficiency, and $11.70 at 80% efficiency. | |||
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| Member |
So even using the most efficient of those numbers the math is beyond fuzzy. $10.40 for 170 miles means that if the power bill was $50 bucks for six (6) months you drove like 800 miles in half a year. That is basically almost no driving. Americans are bad at math. | |||
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| Conservative in Nor Cal constantly swimming up stream  |
Here’s one of the Ford E fleet. I have personally paid nothing to charge it in 10 months. My cousin put solar panels and Tesla power walls on the house years ago. He has a 10 year old Volt. I have no idea of how much of the loss on EVs is in setting up the infrastructure for the plants. The Mustang Mach E plant is in Mexico. Here’s my obligatory photo  ----------------------------------- Get your guns b4 the Dems take them away Sig P-229 Sig P-220 Combat | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr.  |
I recently bought an old truck for $8,000 and put another two grand (exhaust, radio, belts, etc...) in to it. The fun part is that it gets exactly -> nine <- miles per gallon on premium fuel. Seems it will take a while to burn through $40,000 in gas before I get to what a new car is these days. I can't grasp the concept of finding an old electric in the future and wanting to restore it just for fun. Next on the list may be exhaust cut outs just to make it more fun!  | |||
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| Member |
PR64 that is a pretty good deal to have solar panels, Tesla PowerWall and it didn't cost you a penny. I clearly need better friends who can "gift" me tens of thousands of dollars of product for free. lol Still is a beautiful car though. Love the stripes, that is what makes it so sharp looking. | |||
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| Member |
It’s interesting that the things you need to repair or replace are not even needed in an EV but you’re worried about repairing them in the future. I think acting like an old worn out $10k truck is no different than a new $40k car is a bit disingenuous. There’s a bigger difference than the gas you need to buy for sure. With many companies already reporting that their batteries will last 500,000 miles I think in the future there will be reasonably affordable battery swaps. You don’t have the 500 other items to repair or replace that goes with a traditional drivetrain. The other mechanical bits are going to be no different than any other car. | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
This is the same group that insists their car with 200k miles they bought brand new still drives the same.  It doesn't drive the same, the decrease in the driving experience has been gradual and therefore unnoticed. _____________ | |||
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| Member |
It isn't the same, it is better. No car payments. lol In all seriousness though I don't believe the car companies when they claim their batteries are good for 500k miles. If that was actually true, which I doubt, then the actuaries would tell them to offer 350,000 mile warranties on them. Yet they don't. It is a head scratcher isn't it? | |||
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Member |
Ford is getting burned because they stopped making cars. Their EV’s are all expensive, heavy, and big for the most part. They fucked up by NOT making smaller, more affordable, EV’s. In fact that’s a problem for GM, Mercedes, many manus. They all focused on the very expensive shit and it has come back to bite them in the ass. Ford is already pivoting, big time and currently working with their skunk works team to build smaller, more affordable, commuter type vehicles and they think this is the way. It’s what they should have been doing all along. Now they regret canceling the Fiesta, Focus, Taurus, etc. It was the wrong decision. Nobody to blame but themselves. All the manus have hit market penetration with their expensive ass EV’s. The problem isn’t electric propulsion. The problem is the massive MSRP’s. Make some affordable shit and your business will be way better. They have nobody to blame but themselves. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
In fairness to Ford, the cherry picked paragraph in the OP and the linked article are not the complete story: found here. That $132,000 loss per vehicle includes R&D costs, not just manufacturing costs: “ The losses go far beyond the cost of building and selling those 10,000 cars, according to Ford. Instead the losses include hundreds of millions being spent on research and development of the next generation of EVs for Ford. Those investments are years away from paying off.” | |||
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| My other Sig is a Steyr. |
Sorry for the drift:
Nope. I never thought or implied that it would drive the same or better than any new or newer ride. There are a lot more practical vehicles out there for sure. Mine gets me from A to B and makes it fun. There are a spectacular array of comfort and safety features an older vehicle couldn't possibly offer. Sure, I can add Bluetooth, navigation, sky view cameras, HID/LED lights, etc... for better overall drivability, but it will never be the same and I don't expect it to.
I like this part. I have never made a car payment.When adjusted for inflation, every car I have ever owned and driven since 1989 has set me back $46,000 in 2024 US dollars.
This is the most important statement in the entire article. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. | |||
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| What is the soup du jour? |
They fact Ford could not build a successful EV Truck based off their F150 platform, and lost $130k/vehicle, due to the ludicrous startup costs, is extremely funny to me. They tried to use as many components off their standard F150 to save on both costs and make the transition as easy as possible to the new tech/manufacturing. That leaves me to be even more excited to see the impending failure of GM's new Chevy Avalanche EV, er, I mean, whatever they're calling it. LMAO. | |||
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| Member |
Wife and I just did a 950 mile road trip in her Tesla Y. We filled up at Tesla Superchargers exclusively and they billed her CC. Total bill roundtrip was $41. She only charges at night while home and it's insanely cheap at home, so add a few bucks for the initial fillup. If I had a pickup getting 9 miles a gallon, at @$5 a gallon, that's $527 to do the same trip. Wife will never have to change the oil either:-). I do believe that EV's are not the "end-all/be-all" for the environment which they are purported to be. Someone had to mine the lithium, etc etc. But the Teslas in particular, have solved a lot of the issues and they are fantastic cars. Fun to drive. | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
Curious how you planned it out. I was talking to a co-worker about his Tesla. He said a supercharger can get you to about 80% in 20 minutes. It can charge to 100% but would take about 20-25 minutes to get from 80% to 100%. We were talking about this because I said to him something like the Tesla would make sense for my wife because she drives all local while I tend to road trip (1,200 mile trips). I was telling him how my method of refueling during road tripping goes: gas to full tank, pee and hit the road again. Total downtime is 15 minutes or less but that would only get 80% charge on a Tesla. My Civic gets 480-500 miles on the interstate on a full tank. _____________ | |||
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| Member |
Correct. We typically charge to less than @80%. Basically, we enter the destination in the onboard computer and it calculates the trip. We charged twice on the way over and twice back. Which coincides with the dogs wanting a break. A press of the button will tell you the per KWH price of each location, and you can chose to go to the next charger if you wish. Brother and I did a @3000 mile road trip in his last year and there was only one spot where we charged over 80% as the distance was great between chargers. The raging snowstorm of the decade was also happening (Tahoe/nevada area) and we wanted a cushion. Nice that it's 4wd and seemed fine in the snow, although it is heavier than most cars. https://www.foxweather.com/ext...est-months-on-record | |||
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| Member |
Yep. Our family uses trucks for daily driving, business, and the family ranch. I see EV trucks in our future about as soon as I start sporting a manbun while eating at vegan restaurants -- meaning never. Our ranch trucks -- the mid-80s white F150 has been retired, the mid-90s red F250 is still kicking. I doubt there's a charging station within a 30 minute drive of our ranch, but there are gas and diesel options 3 miles away.   | |||
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