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I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted
National Review
Ben Shapiro
May 2, 2018

But campus diehards still make a case for him.

This week marks the birthday of one of history’s worst human beings, Karl Marx. Just because Marx’s philosophy would lead directly to the deaths of 100 million human beings over the course of a century, the imprisonment of tens of millions more in gulags and re-education camps from Russia to China to Vietnam to Cambodia to North Korea, and the oppression of hundreds of millions more hasn’t dissuaded those on the modern western left from embracing Marx’s bloody legacy. Realizing, however, that embracing Communism itself might alienate those who remember the Berlin Wall, today’s Marxists rally instead for identity politics. In the pages of the New York Times — the same newspaper that in the past two years has run opinion pieces endorsing Communism’s impact on female empowerment and female sexual activity and its inspirational effects on Americans — Kyung Hee University associate professor of philosophy Jason Barker celebrated Marx’s birthday, writing, “Happy Birthday, Karl Marx. You Were Right!”

What, exactly, was Marx right about?

He wasn’t right about economics — his theory of economics is tripe. He wasn’t right about history unfolding as a glorious Hegelian progression toward a socialist utopia either. But according to Baker, he was right about one thing: The dispossessed of the world would unite to change human nature by changing the system of oppression under which they lived. Marx, says Baker, was right about class exploitation — the rich exploiting the poor. But it’s in the guise of victim groups based on race and sex that Marx’s dialectic finds its true apotheosis:

Racial and sexual oppression have been added to the dynamic of class exploitation. Social justice movements like Black Lives Matter and #MeToo, owe something of an unspoken debt to Marx through their unapologetic targeting of the “eternal truths” of our age. Such movements recognize, as did Marx, that the ideas that rule every society are those of its ruling class and that overturning those ideas is fundamental to true revolutionary progress.

Here, Baker is merely rehashing the writings of members of the Frankfurt School Marxists such as Herbert Marcuse, who argued that

quote:
human beings who have lived in the shadow of this culture, the victims of the power structure . . . now oppose to the “music of the spheres” which was the most sublime achievement of this culture their own music, with all the defiance, and the hatred, and the joy of rebellious victims, defining their own humanity against the definitions of the masters.


Instead of a revolution of the proletariat, then, Marxism now seeks a revolution of the victims — the various groups of dispossessed who feel that the system has been stacked against them. And it is far easier to unite such groups around intersectional themes than it is to unite them around income disparity. There may not be any serious brotherhood between those who don’t earn much money, but pure tribalism forms lasting ties — and Marxists are happy to mold those tribes into a new nation of rebels.

While advocates of Marxism today disown the Stalinists and the Maoists and the Castro regime and Venezuela and North Korea, all of those nations thought they were fulfilling Marx’s dream,
The hope, of course, is that such a new nation would in turn breed a new type of human being. Baker explains that we are “used to the go-getting mantra that to effect social change we first have to change ourselves.” But in reality, according to Marx, we cannot change ourselves because the system has already defined us. By redefining the system, we can “transition to a new society where relations among people, rather than capital relations, finally determine an individual’s worth.” All we have to do is band together to tear down capitalism, and man will blossom forth in his full beauty. Tearing down is building up.

This is dangerous nonsense. And while advocates of Marxism today disown the Stalinists and the Maoists and the Castro regime and Venezuela and North Korea, all of those nations thought they were fulfilling Marx’s dream, too. That’s because they were. There is no new human nature on the horizon; human beings aren’t defined purely by the system under which they live. Only a system that makes room for our all-too-human flaws, that counterbalances failings with consequences and selfishness with non-aggression, can channel those flaws into something useful.

No, Marx wasn’t right. But the Left will never let him go, because he offers the only true alternative to the religious view of human nature — the view of man that says he is not a blank slate, not an angel waiting for redemption, but a flawed creature capable of great things. To achieve those great things is hard work. To change ourselves on an individual level is hard work. To spout about the evils of society — that’s certainly easy enough.

Link




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Am The Walrus
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If I could send a Terminator back in time to make sure someone never existed, that person would be Marx...


_____________

 
Posts: 13364 | Registered: March 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They use the divide and conquer method.

Had Marx be eliminated, I am sure others would be along to do something quite similar.


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Posts: 2794 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Marx was wrong on a lot....but I fear that he is right on one thing:
Socialism/Communism is inevitable.

Not because it is "good" or "progressive" or "more fair"....but simply because human beings really are generally lazy slaves who want to be taken care of and resent anyone who is more successful than they are. They really would rather be equally poor and cared for by a nanny-state than have an opportunity for success with the concomitant chance of failure and the requirements of personal responsibility.

Remember that humanity has really been breeding "slaves" and "serfs" for many millenia. The westward push of "freedom seekers" has been a temporary aberration on the time scales of human evolution, and those people represented a small fraction of the genetic propensity towards slavery.
Now, the world is simply catching up and diluting the genetics back to "normalcy" of those "malcontents" who demanded freedom.


"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
 
Posts: 6641 | Registered: September 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
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quote:
Originally posted by Crom:
Marx was wrong on a lot....but I fear that he is right on one thing:
Socialism/Communism is inevitable.

Not because it is "good" or "progressive" or "more fair"....but simply because human beings really are generally lazy slaves who want to be taken care of and resent anyone who is more successful than they are. They really would rather be equally poor and cared for by a nanny-state than have an opportunity for success with the concomitant chance of failure and the requirements of personal responsibility.

Remember that humanity has really been breeding "slaves" and "serfs" for many millenia. The westward push of "freedom seekers" has been a temporary aberration on the time scales of human evolution, and those people represented a small fraction of the genetic propensity towards slavery.
Now, the world is simply catching up and diluting the genetics back to "normalcy" of those "malcontents" who demanded freedom.


Maybe we are ending the tyranny of the few over the many, in favor of the tyranny of the many over everyone.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A tad too premature to claim that Marx is incorrect. Give it another 50 years of automation. I've seen plenty of displacement due to automation, in search of profit.

I've reading a 1919 published world history book right now, and the parallels to the fall of the Roman empire with today's times are uncanny.

Entropy is real and has no cure.


-.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.-
It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.

Ayn Rand


"He gains votes ever and anew by taking money from everybody and giving it to a few, while explaining that every penny was extracted from the few to be giving to the many."

Ogden Nash from his poem - The Politician
 
Posts: 1690 | Registered: July 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by icom706:
A tad too premature to claim that Marx is incorrect.


Elimination of 80 million or so "reactionaries" isn't enough ?
quote:

Give it another 50 years of automation. I've seen plenty of displacement due to automation, in search of profit.

The "automation" argument is a spectacularly wrong now as it was a century or so years ago. For every Blacksmith who lost his job, there were 100 Engineers working on the "Iron Horse" Smile

Yes, if you are illiterate and can perform only production-line type manual labor, I would be worried. That's why the "Iron horse" workers sent their kids to "high school" and why we now send our kids to college.


"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
 
Posts: 6641 | Registered: September 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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quote:
Originally posted by icom706:
A tad too premature to claim that Marx is incorrect.
Think so? So, you're not interested in world history? I'm just guessing.
 
Posts: 110110 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by icom706:
A tad too premature to claim that Marx is incorrect.


LOL, no it isn't.

Have you read The Communist Manifesto?




 
Posts: 11744 | Location: Western Oklahoma | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
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It's remarkable to see anyone make such a comment in this forum.
 
Posts: 110110 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Aquabird:
They use the divide and conquer method.

Had Marx be eliminated, I am sure others would be along to do something quite similar.


Engels for one.




 
Posts: 11744 | Location: Western Oklahoma | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Telecom Ronin
Picture of dewhorse
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Crom:
Marx was wrong on a lot....but I fear that he is right on one thing:
Socialism/Communism is inevitable.

Not because it is "good" or "progressive" or "more fair"....but simply because human beings really are generally lazy slaves who want to be taken care of and resent anyone who is more successful than they are. They really would rather be equally poor and cared for by a nanny-state than have an opportunity for success with the concomitant chance of failure and the requirements of personal responsibility.

Remember that humanity has really been breeding "slaves" and "serfs" for many millenia. The westward push of "freedom seekers" has been a temporary aberration on the time scales of human evolution, and those people represented a small fraction of the genetic propensity towards slavery.
Now, the world is simply catching up and diluting the genetics back to "normalcy" of those "malcontents" who demanded freedom.


You see this in Europe and even in our own urban areas, when you talk of liberties they talk of security....normally economic, freedom is messy and many would rather a neat planned existance.

Then you have the young stupid....I mean idealistic ones, they just hear "fair"...."equal" and it sounds nice, what they don't understand is its not success that is shared but failure.
 
Posts: 8301 | Location: Back in NE TX ....to stay | Registered: February 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
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quote:
No, Marx wasn’t right. But the Left will never let him go, because he offers the only true alternative to the religious view of human nature — the view of man that says he is not a blank slate, not an angel waiting for redemption, but a flawed creature capable of great things. To achieve those great things is hard work. To change ourselves on an individual level is hard work. To spout about the evils of society — that’s certainly easy enough.


Man is often sinful. Man is also kind, generous, thoughtful, etc. That is human nature. Human nature does not change over time.

The American founding was based on this understanding of human nature.

Karl Marx believed in the "perfectibility" of man. Karl Marx, You Were Wrong. Ben Shapiro is right.

John Adams in a speech to the military in 1798 warned his fellow countrymen stating,
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

and
“[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind.”
--Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24881 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
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quote:
Entropy is real and has no cure.


By the same argument, Malthus would have been right, as would Paul Ehrlich.
Trouble is, these fallen angels are incredibly innovative, given a capitalist, anti-Marxist economic environment, and have repeatedly throughout history created the means by which humanity would become more prosperous and better-fed than should have been thought possible.

Freedom and capitalism are exciting and innovative. Socialism is the death of the soul, sunk in continual envy until all are equally miserable but the ruling nomenklatura.


_________________________
“Remember, remember the fifth of November!"
 
Posts: 18629 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
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quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
quote:
Entropy is real and has no cure.


By the same argument, Malthus would have been right, as would Paul Ehrlich.
Trouble is, these fallen angels are incredibly innovative, given a capitalist, anti-Marxist economic environment, and have repeatedly throughout history created the means by which humanity would become more prosperous and better-fed than should have been thought possible.

Freedom and capitalism are exciting and innovative. Socialism is the death of the soul, sunk in continual envy until all are equally miserable but the ruling nomenklatura.


I just finished a biography of John D. Rockefeller which I believe would be an example. Rockefeller aggressively sought to control the refining and marketing of crude oil in the infant stages of the industry, and of course, ended up in control of 80% or so, drawing the attention of muckrakers, regulators, do gooders of allckinds etc. OTOH, it is hard to envision how the market for the products and development of other industries able to use the products might have occurred as it did, as quickly as it did, as prosperously as it did, with all the benefits to the economy, had a pure free private enterprise, capitalist market developed.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
No, Marx wasn’t right. But the Left will never let him go, because he offers the only true alternative to the religious view of human nature — the view of man that says he is not a blank slate, not an angel waiting for redemption, but a flawed creature capable of great things. To achieve those great things is hard work. To change ourselves on an individual level is hard work. To spout about the evils of society — that’s certainly easy enough.


Man is often sinful. Man is also kind, generous, thoughtful, etc. That is human nature. Human nature does not change over time.

The American founding was based on this understanding of human nature.

Karl Marx believed in the "perfectibility" of man. Karl Marx, You Were Wrong. Ben Shapiro is right.

John Adams in a speech to the military in 1798 warned his fellow countrymen stating,
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

and
“[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind.”
--Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence


...and this is where Marxism fails. I believe man edifies himself within the model of liberty and consequence. The only way for Marxist principles to work are if mankind refines out of himself greed, avarice, covetousness, envy and sloth. These characteristics cannot be refined out from the outside. It has to come from within. Marxism imposes its morality on man so he is not refined. He simply finds a way to survive with the least amount of investment. At some point liberty is lost. Consequence is visited on the heads of the innocent and equality is only a wet dream. Man must edify himself voluntarily.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 30005 | Location: Norris Lake, TN | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
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quote:
Originally posted by icom706:
A tad too premature to claim that Marx is incorrect. Give it another 50 years of automation.


Maybe another good purge or 10 might just do the trick?


____________________________

Eeewwww, don't touch it!
Here, poke at it with this stick.
 
Posts: 34587 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have studied Marx extensively over the last 23 years. If one thinks it’s premature to declare him wrong, one knows *nothing* about Marx, Marxism, political economy or even history, for that matter. It’s incredible that anyone - including presumably educated people - would believe anything ever written by “the moor”; to me, it’s akin to chemistry professors teaching alchemy, or physicians professing to believe in the theory of humours.
 
Posts: 393 | Registered: October 12, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ll just leave this here:

“Marx preaches a doctrine of salvation which rationalizes [people’s] resentment and transfigures their envy and desire for revenge into a mission ordained by world history. He inspires them with consciousness of their mission by greeting them as those who carry in themselves the future of the human race. […] it always pays to rouse what is evil in the human heart. Yet Marx has done more: he has decked out the resentment of the common man with the nimbus of science, and has thus made it attractive to those who live on a higher intellectual and ethical plane. Every socialist movement has borrowed in this respect from Marx, adapting the doctrine slightly for its special needs.”— Ludwig von Mises


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4053 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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He was the least funny too.


 
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