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Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
Have you considered having a metal roof vs. shingles?
Metal roofs are great if you don't need cell or other RF signals in the home, and you don't plan to get up on the roof yourself.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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We just did our roof last fall. I got quotes anywhere from $10-18k for shingles to $23-38k for metal. I decided I wasn't willing to pay half again what I paid for my house for a roof, so we ended up doing shingle, and did it ourselves.

We replaced them early enough that I didn't have to replace too much wood underneath, just a few spots. My roof is very shallow and shaded, so it's hard on shingles. I ended up doing the whole thing (roughly 30 square) for under $4500. It was worth it, but one of the most exhausting and miserable weeks of my life. I gave myself a pretty nasty case of tendonitis in my elbow working a shovel ripping off shingles, and then fought through it the rest of the week getting the new ones on the roof and installed. A neighbor helped us out with his tractor, which saved running the bundles up and down a ladder, but it was still a lot of work.

The bugger of it is that when you're done, it pretty much looks exactly like it did before from the street. But it isn't leaking, which is what counts.

If you go with shingles, I'd recommend ripping them off. You've got leaks so there's clearly some wood damage underneath that you're going to want to address. I managed to deal with a few spots, including one long-running issue that I'd never been able to identify the cause of before (turns out the previous guy didn't flash under a corner and let water run right down into the sheeting...it would only do it under certain conditions, but over the years it pretty much destroyed the wood). You're spending a lot of money on asphalt...you definitely want it to be nailed to something solid.
 
Posts: 8701 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of smlsig
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Originally posted by vthoky:
Eddie, you're one of the people I hoped would chime in on this one. Thank you for your input.

This house isn't the "forever house," but I still don't want to shortcut it while I'm here. I figure there's not need to half-@$$ it, and if it's done well then the resale value will be better when that time comes.

There's a nearby roofing company I figure you've heard of -- name starts with "C" -- are you familiar with them? Anything to say about them?

I've been looking at the Owens Corning Duration shingles, for what that's worth.


Are you referring to Cenvar? I was not impressed with them or their pricing.

I’m not sure exactly where you are but this is my former roofers. Hands down the best in the business if they work in your area.

https://riddickroofing.com/

If they don’t, consider finding a GAF Master elite contractor here:

https://www.gaf.com/en-us/roof....ds&postalcode=24101


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 6342 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’d agree with stripping it off. We had ours done after 22 years in the house. They stripped it off, changed a few boards and replaced the paper/shingles. Three months after the new one was on, a hailstorm damaged it. Despite it looking fine and knowing the sheathing had just been inspected, they pulled it all off and started over.
 
Posts: 8968 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Leemur
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
Have you considered having a metal roof vs. shingles?
Metal roofs are great if you don't need cell or other RF signals in the home, and you don't plan to get up on the roof yourself.


I have a standing seam metal roof. I get cell signal just fine inside. Also, the pitch of the roof determines whether or not you can get on it if needed. I get on mine a couple times a year to check the gutters.
 
Posts: 13748 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: October 16, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Ironbutt
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quote:
Originally posted by Leemur:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
Have you considered having a metal roof vs. shingles?
Metal roofs are great if you don't need cell or other RF signals in the home, and you don't plan to get up on the roof yourself.


I have a standing seam metal roof. I get cell signal just fine inside. Also, the pitch of the roof determines whether or not you can get on it if needed. I get on mine a couple times a year to check the gutters.


We replaced our old metal roof about 8 or 10 years ago. Our house is 140+ years old & the metal roof was was on the house for exactly 75 of those years. It wasn't leaking, but was getting in bad shape at the edges. And besides, I wanted to replace/cover all the old wood trim. I'm too old to be getting up there & painting trim & the roof, so I had it all redone.

I replaced it with another standing seam metal roof. Main house, front porch, & rear addition, plus all trim was $11K by a local roofer. That includes taking off the old roof, replacing all the runners, & the new roof.

I'm sure it'll be more than that now, but a metal roof is pretty much one and done.


------------------------------------------------

"It's hard to imagine a more stupid or dangerous way of making decisions, than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong."
Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 2048 | Location: PA | Registered: September 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When I was laid off in 2000, I roofed with a friend for a couple of years. It was brutal work. Many here are recommending a complete tear-off. While doing so reduces roof weight, you can get good results with a re-cover, if the contractor is a professional and not a hack.

For starters, your house needs to have sheathing. If your roof deck is just spaces lumber, you should tear-off and apply sheathing. This gives the house a higher seismic rating. Ditto if you have a layer of wood shingles, or highly decayed organic shingles.

Here in Utah, the code used to allow for three layers until 2000 or so, when it was reduced to two. This is because dimensional shingles are much heavier than three-tabs. To get good results from a re-cover, you must do two things: tear off the ridge cap, and use longer nails. 1.5” is the min for a recover. Your nail should penetrate the deck.

Anybody who states that not doing a tear-off is due to laziness is unfamiliar with the roofing industry. I can assure you, every roofer would rather roof over a clean deck that apply a second layer. Furthermore, they charge a lot for the tear-off. We used to charge $40/$70/$100 (layer 1,2,3) per square to tear-off. It was a significant up charge. Avoiding the tear-off is because the homeowner didn’t want to pay the additional couple thousands of dollars.

Right down the street from me is my neighbor’s house that I roofed in 2001. Twenty-two years ago. Wow, time flies. Anyway, I added a third layer, and it looks great, even now. You can’t tell it was recovered unless you look very closely at the bottom of the valleys. She was an old widow, and fussed about the expense the whole time. I did the whole job, a large home with a roof shaped like a cross (chimney in the middle, four ridges radiating outward. The whole roof was 32 square, and I did the whole job for $1800, including materials. She was not going to pay to tear it off. 22 years later and not a shingle has blown off, but working with those 1.75” nails was a pain. Recovers get a bad rep because scab roofs use 1.25” nails and don’t hit the nail line.

Disclaimer: Three tabs are crap. You cannot get good results from those with a recover unless you nest them, and that’s not possible now because old three tabs were SAE while new shingles are metric. The only thing three tabs are good for is hip and ridge and dog houses.



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 8222 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Anybody who states that not doing a tear-off is due to laziness is unfamiliar with the roofing industry. I can assure you, every roofer would rather roof over a clean deck that apply a second layer. Furthermore, they charge a lot for the tear-off. We used to charge $40/$70/$100 (layer 1,2,3) per square to tear-off. It was a significant up charge. Avoiding the tear-off is because the homeowner didn’t want to pay the additional couple thousands of dollars.

Back in the day when I was roofing (late 80's), we called it a 'Rip-Off'... Razz


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Posts: 8980 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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Originally posted by TBH:
If you google Owens Corning (I believe the largest shingle manufacturer) they have a list of installers that they recommend in your area. Not associated with, other than Owens approves their work and occasionally spot checks them. They should have “Premium, or Platinum” to choose from....


I wouldn't put much faith in roof manufacturer certified installers. My friend googled and went that direction. Even though a little more expensive she chose an "Owens Corning Platinum" roofer which means OC guaranteed the shingles "as well as labor" for (I think) 30 years. 18 months later noticed a leak in one of the two areas that were leaking before the new roof was installed. (That's why she bought the new roof.) Contractor came back saying he fixed it around a penetration. Six months later after a heavy rain it was now leaking in the same two areas it had been before the new roof. Called the contractor but now he won't return calls. Check OC's site and he is no longer an approved contractor, but he WAS when he did the job so she "opens a case" with Owens Corning.
Owens Corning asked that she sent them a piece of one of her leftover shingles, which she does.

They get back saying "the shingle is fine, no defect".
She says "but my roof's leaking and I used your Platinum contractor?"
They say "warranty only covers defective shingles and they're not defective so it must be an installation problem."
She says "OK but it was your platinum installer so come fix it."
They say "no we only pay labor if the shingles test defective."

I am looking for a roofer now to replace the surface fastened metal roof on my house and garage.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 7124 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
I wouldn't put much faith in roof manufacturer certified installers. My friend googled and went that direction. Even though a little more expensive she chose an "Owens Corning Platinum" roofer which means OC guaranteed the shingles "as well as labor" for (I think) 30 years. 18 months later ...
There are different levels of warranty depending upon what one purchased. The most comprehensive warranty only applies if a Platinum Preferred Contractor was used and all Owens Corning product was used throughout.

E.g.: For our installation, traditional felt was an option, but, to get the warranty we have, we had to use a specific Owens Corning underlayment. (Luckily, they'd been running a special promotion on that and we got in just under the wire. If we'd had them out a couple weeks later we'd have missed and would've had to have paid full boat for it.)

We were assured that, even if the contractor we'd used disappeared, another Platinum Preferred Contractor would be used to fulfill the terms of the warranty.

We learned, the hard way, it's also wise to be very careful about the contractors you choose. We went with what turned-out to be a fly-by-night manufacturer and contractor for our first replacement windows--only to end up with a useless "lifetime" warranty when they closed their doors. The contractor we used for the windows to replace those, and for our roof, has been in business for a long time and has a sterling reputation.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

We were assured that, even if the contractor we'd used disappeared, another Platinum Preferred Contractor would be used to fulfill the terms of the warranty.



Yes but my point being that under the terms of the warranty, labor is not covered so you're on your own dealing with the contractor, if he's still even around. If he's not you can pay the next "Platinum" contractor to fix it. OC does not guarantee that the labor will be done correctly.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 7124 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
We were assured that, even if the contractor we'd used disappeared, another Platinum Preferred Contractor would be used to fulfill the terms of the warranty.
Yes but my point being that under the terms of the warranty, labor is not covered ...
Yes, but, my point was there are different levels of OC warranty--depending upon what you bought.

Our warranty covers everything, materials and labor, for fifty years. Period.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Yes, but, my point was there are different levels of OC warranty--depending upon what you bought.

Our warranty covers everything, materials and labor, for fifty years. Period.


OK then if you've read the fine print and it says "OC will furnish material and labor to repair/replace your roof" even when there is no defect in the Owens Corning roofing , you must have a special warranty.
My friend bought OC's best shingles through their "platinum" roofing company, just to have Owens Corning's best warranty which coveres material and labor. But "labor ONLY if Owens Cornings shingles are defective, not improper installation", which only makes sense.
The thing is the vast majority of composite shingle roofing problems stem from improper installation related to flashing, valleys, vents, skylights, etc., NOT a defect in the manufacture of shingles themselves.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 7124 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Manufacturer warranties on contractor installed materials are typically against manufacturing defects and are very narrow in what they actually cover after the first few years. Any warranty that claims to offer coverage beyond the useful lifespan of a product or service should be looked upon with a lot of trepidation.
 
Posts: 1809 | Location: Spokane, WA | Registered: June 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
My friend bought OC's best shingles through their "platinum" roofing company, just to have Owens Corning's best warranty which coveres material and labor. But "labor ONLY if Owens Cornings shingles are defective, not improper installation", which only makes sense.
Yes, that makes sense, and, yes, that is what our warranty covers.

Here is an example of a TL;DR explanation of the warranty:
quote:

Owens Corning Platinum Protection Roofing System Limited Warranty

The Platinum Protection warranty starts by providing you with 15-50 year Tru PROtection non-prorated warranty covering material defects and the labor to repair those defects. Ownership of the warranty can be transferred to the new owners, should you sell you home while the warranty is in place. Owens Corning Shingles have a 15 year Wind Warranty and are rated as 130 mph wind resistant.
Ref: Owens Corning Platinum Protection Warranty

Were I your friend I'd be inclined to ask OC how they could determine the fault wasn't with the shingles from examining a spare shingle that hadn't been exposed to the elements?

Probably isn't, though. My suspicion is this wasn't the first problem Owens Corning had experienced with that contractor and they yanked their Platinum Preferred contractor status, just like our home insurance company did with our original agents when they found said agency was issuing far too many dodgy policies.

Owens Corning does have standards that must be met by contractors. E.g.: Before installing our roof the contractors had to do an audit that included validating appropriate air exchange in the attic. The contractor came back with "need more soffit vents." I complained that installing more soffit vents would be prohibitively labor-intensive (there's wood under the vinyl soffit material), I'd been in the attic numerous times and you could literally feel the airflow up there, and asked if additional vents were strictly necessary. They shared their audit with OC and OC signed off on what we had.

quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
The thing is the vast majority of composite shingle roofing problems stem from improper installation related to flashing, valleys, vents, skylights, etc., NOT a defect in the manufacture of shingles themselves.
Which is why it pays to select your contractor carefully, rather than go with the lowest bidder.

In all the contracted work we've had done on our home I don't believe we've ever gone with the lowest bidder.

(Not suggesting your friend wasn't careful or did go with the lowest bidder.)



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of vthoky
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Originally posted by smlsig:
consider finding a GAF Master elite contractor


Thank you for this recommendation. My local Master Elite contractor, it turns out, is just a couple of miles from the house. That's convenient.

The GAF Timberline Ultra HDZ package comes with some killer warranty: 50 years on the materials, 30 years on the workmanship, non-prorated and all backed by GAF. Should the contractor retire, go out of business, etc., GAF backs it up. And the warranty is transferable, should I sell the house during that term.

Impressive.




God bless America.
 
Posts: 13531 | Location: The mountainous part of Hokie Nation! | Registered: July 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From my own experience, investing in a quality roofing job is worth it in the end. I had to replace my roof a few years back. I went with this local company https://southportroofer.co.uk/ that used top-notch materials and offered expert advice. It ended up saving me a lot of stress and money in the long term.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mac_220,


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Posts: 52 | Registered: November 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are many many good tips here.

Allow me to share my story.

Ceiling showed water stain. Three inches in diameter. Traced source. Found source in attic. Was at a vent, a metal flashed vent.

Roofer came. Look, whoever installed this vent was an idiot. You are lucky you didn't have leaks all this time. I removed the vent, resealed it, refastened the shingles, and tested it. You are good to go. $300.

Point is...evidence of a leak does not mean you have to condemn the roof. Yes, mine is 25 years old. Yes, mine will need replacing. Yes, I will do it per SF recommendations. But, it really feels good to have a quality roofing contractor come out and say...I found the leak at the vent pipe that you found in the attic. It was an installer error. I fixed it. You are good to go.

Seek the truth. If it can be repaired, repair.


-------
Trying to simplify my life...
 
Posts: 5090 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Neighbor just had the roof replaced. Simple roof with one dormer. Maybe 1600sf home. Tear off and all new with vents and drip edge. $7k. It took 2 1/2 hours by eight workers and the was finished only three days after the estimate.


“That’s what.” - She
 
Posts: 343 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: June 06, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spiritually Imperfect
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We went with GAF HDZ line for the reasons you mentioned and more, vthoky.
Was $24k all in. We have a very large roof.
Very happy with it, 7 months later.
 
Posts: 3813 | Location: WV | Registered: January 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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