quote:

Originally posted by Elec540:

That means your have to buy a upper receiver, bolt carrier group, and Gen 2 mags. It was advertised as a modular system. Sig said they would have the shorter Gen 1 barrels 1st Q 2016. Wait and see what happens with the conversions, right now they are not available for either Gen. Knowing Sig we might have to wait for the Gen 3's to get the conversions.

It is Sig Perfection. Just getting more perfect faster than Gaston is with his toy.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:

So, let's have it. True or untrue? I hope it's untrue as I was really leaning toward the SIG MPX over the CZ Scorpion. If it is true, I'm going CZ.

Thanks in advance.

Hope this helps.

The MPX Manual (both Gens) says that the Bolt Cam Pin "must be installed" (see photos) or the rifle will suffer a catastrophic failure...

It does not state that "incorrectly" installing it will cause the failure. I just put a small dab of white paint in the alignment marks to remind me to check alignment when reinstalling.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:
If I'm reading correctly then it sounds like it is easy to install the cam incorrectly, but an operator won't be able to pull the charging handle back to get the bolt carrier group cycled? So, it may not be possible then to fire it with the cam installed incorrectly? If that's the case, that's okay. I am just concerned that you could accidently install the cam in the bolt incorrectly and not realize it, fire the weapon and have a catastrophic and permanent failure.

I guess you could drop a round in the chamber, then install the incorrectly assembled bolt group and the gun might fire. The only ones who would really know would be SIG.

quote:

Originally posted by ivy6t5:
The MPX Manual (both Gens) says that the Bolt Cam Pin "must be installed" (see photos) or the rifle will suffer a catastrophic failure...

It does not state that "incorrectly" installing it will cause the failure.

The same is true of any AR-15 type firearm: leave the cam pin out and the bolt may not rotate and lock into the barrel extension properly. If that happens, the bolt and carrier will begin moving backwards at the moment of ignition rather than being delayed as the action is designed to operate. Without that delay, the bolt and carrier can be blown out the rear of the receiver and cause death or serious injury. I was first advised of that fact during a Colt armorer course in 2004, and it’s something I advise all my students of when teaching a patrol rifle class. Interestingly, no one I’ve ever taught, including former military personnel, had ever been given that warning, so it’s good that SIG includes it in their manual.

In AR-15 type rifles it’s not possible to install the cam pin incorrectly. It goes in only one way.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:
If I'm reading correctly then it sounds like it is easy to install the cam incorrectly, but an operator won't be able to pull the charging handle back to get the bolt carrier group cycled? So, it may not be possible then to fire it with the cam installed incorrectly? If that's the case, that's okay. I am just concerned that you could accidently install the cam in the bolt incorrectly and not realize it, fire the weapon and have a catastrophic and permanent failure.

Tiger, where you located in Tx.

I have both and I'm going to give you my opinion only, but would be willing to let you shoot both if you're close.

I bought the MPX first. I was intrigued by the design. I later (recently) purchased a Scorp.
Both have been utterly reliable. After installing the safety delete on the CZ right side, it's solved my only issue with it. The Sig mags are better, and 3X+ more expensive. I've not had a cracked CZ mag yet and I think it might have been fixed.

If I had to do it all over and wanted to only get one, I'd only get the CZ after shooting both. It's not a better gun, but it's capable, fun to shoot, lighter, less expensive and easier to clean and simple, simple simple. Parts/mags are readily available also.
I've heard it's better to shoot suppressed since it is direct blow back and less residual powder is blown in the face. If that's important to you. It is to me.

Received my collapsible stock today. It is a bit short but I think I'll get used to it. I may even just sell it and get another thin folding stock. Love that one.

quote:

Originally posted by creslin:
finally got my tracking number for my stock.
should arrive on monday.
7 months and a week after I ordered it - and only because I called bitching and got my part# changed.

Redonkulous!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ivy6t5:

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:

So, let's have it. True or untrue? I hope it's untrue as I was really leaning toward the SIG MPX over the CZ Scorpion. If it is true, I'm going CZ.

Thanks in advance.

Hope this helps.

The MPX Manual (both Gens) says that the Bolt Cam Pin "must be installed" (see photos) or the rifle will suffer a catastrophic failure...

It does not state that "incorrectly" installing it will cause the failure. I just put a small dab of white paint in the alignment marks to remind me to check alignment when reinstalling.

Thanks, that does help a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by ivy6t5:
The MPX Manual (both Gens) says that the Bolt Cam Pin "must be installed" (see photos) or the rifle will suffer a catastrophic failure...

It does not state that "incorrectly" installing it will cause the failure.

The same is true of any AR-15 type firearm: leave the cam pin out and the bolt may not rotate and lock into the barrel extension properly. If that happens, the bolt and carrier will begin moving backwards at the moment of ignition rather than being delayed as the action is designed to operate. Without that delay, the bolt and carrier can be blown out the rear of the receiver and cause death or serious injury. I was first advised of that fact during a Colt armorer course in 2004, and it’s something I advise all my students of when teaching a patrol rifle class. Interestingly, no one I’ve ever taught, including former military personnel, had ever been given that warning, so it’s good that SIG includes it in their manual.

In AR-15 type rifles it’s not possible to install the cam pin incorrectly. It goes in only one way.

Yeah, I'm not talking about leaving the cam out entirely. I'm talking about accidently, by an accidental human omission, installing the cam in the bolt backwards-not intentionally doing it, but accidentally doing it. It sounded like it was real easy to install it in wrong. AR's yes intalling either way is fine-which is how this rifle should have been made I would think...but I'm not the engineer who designed it.

Neat weapon, but I just don't know about this.

I've had the same experience as LDD. If you install the pin correctly you will not be able to cycle the bolt. It barely moves at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:
If I'm reading correctly then it sounds like it is easy to install the cam incorrectly, but an operator won't be able to pull the charging handle back to get the bolt carrier group cycled? So, it may not be possible then to fire it with the cam installed incorrectly? If that's the case, that's okay. I am just concerned that you could accidently install the cam in the bolt incorrectly and not realize it, fire the weapon and have a catastrophic and permanent failure.

Tiger, where you located in Tx.

I have both and I'm going to give you my opinion only, but would be willing to let you shoot both if you're close.

I bought the MPX first. I was intrigued by the design. I later (recently) purchased a Scorp.
Both have been utterly reliable. After installing the safety delete on the CZ right side, it's solved my only issue with it. The Sig mags are better, and 3X+ more expensive. I've not had a cracked CZ mag yet and I think it might have been fixed.

If I had to do it all over and wanted to only get one, I'd only get the CZ after shooting both. It's not a better gun, but it's capable, fun to shoot, lighter, less expensive and easier to clean and simple, simple simple. Parts/mags are readily available also.
I've heard it's better to shoot suppressed since it is direct blow back and less residual powder is blown in the face. If that's important to you. It is to me.

Hey, thanks for the info and invite. I'm near the Waco area. If ever this way email me at G36MP5@MSN.COM . I "think" right now I'm leaning in the Scorpion direction for all the reasons you state. Price isn't really a determining factor for me as I'd rather get whatever is best, even if it costs more or less. It does help that the Scorpion is a lot cheaper and will do the same job. My current SBR is a Aero Precision with an Adams Arms 7.5 upper and barrel. Interestingly, I replaced the bolt cam on that rifle with the POF roller type to stop as much receiver wear as possible. What is it with these cams?????

quote:

Originally posted by swage:
I've had the same experience as LDD. If you install the pin correctly you will not be able to cycle the bolt. It barely moves at all.

And, that's better than what I was hearing. At least you won't be able to cycle it with it in incorrectly-preventing it from shooting and destruction. I was being told that it was easy to install incorrectly and you were able to fire it incorrectly and the gun self destructing. That would be a serious issue I would think.

Gen. 2 owners get to change caibers and barrel lengths at will. Gen. 1 owners have to move back to the gen. 1 upper to switch back to 9mm, Unless we buy more 9mm barrels in gen. 2. Total BS. Plus we also got screwed on the key mod hand guard. We should be able to trade ours in for the keymod, not have to buy it.

quote:

Originally posted by gino d:
Plus we also got screwed on the key mod hand guard.

Can't agree there - one of the main reasons I got a Gen 1 despite the issues is I much prefer the Sig hand guard over keymod.

quote:

Originally posted by PorterN:
I have two gen 1 mags and 3 gen 2 mags. The only failure ive had was with Armscor ammo. A friend bought a box on my last range trip since he didn't want to use up all my ammo. In the MPX, It wouldnt feed at all - the nose would catch on something and the bolt would push the round causing some major bullet setback. I swapped back to federal and had no issues. We used the armscor in my G19 and had a couple issue there, too.

I've used Armscor 124gr FMJ in mine without issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackmoon1:
Hey Crash_Pro, what suppressor are you running?

I have the following Suppressors:
1. SilencerCo Octane 9
2. SilencerCo Octane 45
3. SilencerCo Octane 45k
4. Griffin Revolution 9 in K form
5. Thompson Machine SG-2 (pending, i think everyone at the ATF took off the last half of December because it should have been approved by now)

Of those I generally run the octane 9 because it seems to give the best sound levels, however the others are all fairly close and the revolution 9 in K form is very impressive given its small size.


I have tried with both the Griffin internal and SilencerCo external 3 lug mount . I have a TROSUSA 3 lug adapter, which I wish was the Griffin adapter which came out a week after I got mine. The one I have is a half inch longer than needs to be where the Griffin does not have the extra extension.

quote:

Originally posted by gino d:
Gen. 2 owners get to change caibers and barrel lengths at will. Gen. 1 owners have to move back to the gen. 1 upper to switch back to 9mm, Unless we buy more 9mm barrels in gen. 2. Total BS. Plus we also got screwed on the key mod hand guard. We should be able to trade ours in for the keymod, not have to buy it.

We get a whole upper for the price of what Gen 2 guys have to pay for the xchange kits. We don't have to rezero optics when we switch calibers like Gen 2 guys do. And when you bought the gun you knew what rail system it had and you will be able to get the different rails eventually. I still don't see how people of Gen 1 guns are saying we're screwed. We are royally coming out on top. Get over it and stop your bitching people. It's really starting to get old. All of this information was out there 10 months ago. Do a little research next time you become interested in a new platform that just hit the market...

quote:

Originally posted by gino d:
Gen. 2 owners get to change caibers and barrel lengths at will. Gen. 1 owners have to move back to the gen. 1 upper to switch back to 9mm, Unless we buy more 9mm barrels in gen. 2. Total BS. Plus we also got screwed on the key mod hand guard. We should be able to trade ours in for the keymod, not have to buy it.

I look at the caliber conversion for the gen 1 people an advantage! Gen 2 only get one upper and it's not exactly a quick caliber conversion Plus you didn't have to re-zero your sights.

If you have a gen 1 upper in 9mm and a gen 2 in .40, just pull out two pins put on the new upper you're good to go.

I have the following Suppressors:
1. SilencerCo Octane 9
2. SilencerCo Octane 45
3. SilencerCo Octane 45k
4. Griffin Revolution 9 in K form
5. Thompson Machine SG-2 (pending, i think everyone at the ATF took off the last half of December because it should have been approved by now)

Of those I generally run the octane 9 because it seems to give the best sound levels, however the others are all fairly close and the revolution 9 in K form is very impressive given its small size.


I have tried with both the Griffin internal and SilencerCo external 3 lug mount . I have a TROSUSA 3 lug adapter, which I wish was the Griffin adapter which came out a week after I got mine. The one I have is a half inch longer than needs to be where the Griffin does not have the extra extension.[/QUOTE]
-------------------------------------

Thanks Crash_Pro. Have you run the Octane 45 with the 9mm endcap? If so, do you still like the Octane 9 better? I have a Ti-Rant 9 coming soon so I'm interested to compare that to the Octane 45 w/ and w/o the 9mm endcap.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger 2 Tank:

quote:

Originally posted by creslin:
finally got my tracking number for my stock.
should arrive on monday.
7 months and a week after I ordered it - and only because I called bitching and got my part# changed.

Redonkulous!!!!!!!!!!

In fact, if I were the person in charge at SIG, I would have probably sold it to you at cost and sent an apology letter. Just say'in!